The 2011 Regs Thread - DRS - Tyres - Kers
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BlackCountryBob
Rookie
Gotta say, I completely disagree with all the hate, I think the new rules are on the whole a breath of fresh air. While it is true that there could be a tweak here and there (the tyres feel a bit wrong, maybe if the thing of using both compounds was abolished and it was tidied up about saving gyres in qually).
As for if it is removing skill etc, look at the standings, there hasn't been some huge turn around, the big 4 teams are still at the top, vettel, alonso and Hamilton are still a bit better their respective team mates, rosberg is still faster than msc and the other 2 points positions are between Renault and the occasional sauber, force India and williams.
I hate to say it but I think it is much the same as it was last year but how we get there is just more exciting to the neutral which will bring on the all important sponsors that the teams need.
As for if it is removing skill etc, look at the standings, there hasn't been some huge turn around, the big 4 teams are still at the top, vettel, alonso and Hamilton are still a bit better their respective team mates, rosberg is still faster than msc and the other 2 points positions are between Renault and the occasional sauber, force India and williams.
I hate to say it but I think it is much the same as it was last year but how we get there is just more exciting to the neutral which will bring on the all important sponsors that the teams need.
I see your point there, we are seeing more overtakes during corners and not straights....but it is still caused by these gizmos etc.
I don't mind it, it is exciting, but to see it every race....I think they have just added too many things this season.
I think they should have stuck with the tyres, and not KERS and DRS
EvilWhippet
Podium Finisher
That's why I love 'em
We have seen other moments aswell, I am exaggerating a bit
You are exaggerating more than anyone ever has on this site.
You are exaggerating more than anyone ever has on this site.
It's one of my many qualities
They are showing why they are driving the cars and not you or me!!!
I think so far all the changes have continued to leave me cold, and generally empty. The races lack a certain level of intensity and tension. I wasn't on the edge of my seat when Hamilton passed Vettel in China, and I wasn't having nervous sweats during Turkey - the true indicator to me of whether I am truly excited by a race.
In a superficial light, it is easier to pass cars. But passing a car is different than overtaking another car. By simply blasting past another in the DRS zone, F1 doesn't provide me with either a sense of sporting endeavour nor a feeling of particular excitement created by hard, fair racing. Ultimately the tyres don't exactly make me happy, even though I wanted more strategy in the sport. That's because I don't feel the strategy really creates more interest - it just happens that cars pass one another at different stages in the race, but the end result seems to be very similar as to when they were behind one another. By passing another car you are not really gaining or losing anything, because there is no time lost behind someone who is slower than you - you simply blast past them.
All in all, it really does leave me cold.
In a superficial light, it is easier to pass cars. But passing a car is different than overtaking another car. By simply blasting past another in the DRS zone, F1 doesn't provide me with either a sense of sporting endeavour nor a feeling of particular excitement created by hard, fair racing. Ultimately the tyres don't exactly make me happy, even though I wanted more strategy in the sport. That's because I don't feel the strategy really creates more interest - it just happens that cars pass one another at different stages in the race, but the end result seems to be very similar as to when they were behind one another. By passing another car you are not really gaining or losing anything, because there is no time lost behind someone who is slower than you - you simply blast past them.
All in all, it really does leave me cold.
I agree Enja,they said at the start of the race that there is much less urgency into turn 1 as the drivers know two laps in there is the DRS zone and not risk a move...which explains why we haven't had many safety cars.
We have also seen many drivers just back out of defending....
We have also seen many drivers just back out of defending....
As as far as I have seen KERS has made less difference this year with fewer teams running it (but with all that has been going on there hasn't been so much analysis of when it has been being used). I get the impression that there is an optimal place to use it and most of the time that is where it is used, although I would love to see drivers try to surprise people using it elsewhere then try and defend later on (when the other car has KERS left) (any examples of this happening) I don't mind too much though because KERS isn't needed so much with everything else that is going on.
The tyres have been interesting, certainly better than the bridgestones - the most damning indication was Monaco last year, Alonso pits on lap 1 and stays out the rest of the race. Or at least it was stupid given that everyone had to use the hard tyres anyway. I would like it if the Pirelli hards lasted a bit longer to give more variable strategy - we saw how it almost worked out for Button today, and Hamilton/Alonso/Webber/Vettel may have chanced staying out after others pitted if only the hards were more durable. I don't really consider the passing moves due to extreme tyre differences as overtakes, much like you wouldn't consider passing a backmarker an overtake. It is just a result of different strategies playing out and unfortunately these are then considered as 'false overtakes'. (DOF_Power would be having a field day this year! I think we need him back to make everyone else see the bright side of things a bit more often
) There were however some great moves today, in particular the Button Massa Rosberg moves which left me speechless for a good while, you just ahve to look out for the good ones amongst the easy.
DRS has worked sometimes and not others - it has merely shifted the balance a little too far and now overtakes are a touch easy at times. I think it has been a little overused in the early races but they possibly wanted it to make an obvious change at first to avoid it being called useless (and some still did after Aus!). The best thing about DRS for me has been that it adds another layer of driver discrimination in qualifying, although I don't believe it should be free to use in the race. I also believe that if you had a sort of inverse DRS - increase downforce in the corners - the overtakes would look much better and use more skill, but unfortunately the risks of it failing are too great for this to be used.
All in all I think the regs changes haven't been bad but have just gone a little too far, but not by too much - we still have some great on track battles. I have still enjoyed racing this year although it seems there is little chance to stop and catch your breath - feel sorry for the commentators!
There is probably more I could have said about the rule changes but this is more than enough for now
The tyres have been interesting, certainly better than the bridgestones - the most damning indication was Monaco last year, Alonso pits on lap 1 and stays out the rest of the race. Or at least it was stupid given that everyone had to use the hard tyres anyway. I would like it if the Pirelli hards lasted a bit longer to give more variable strategy - we saw how it almost worked out for Button today, and Hamilton/Alonso/Webber/Vettel may have chanced staying out after others pitted if only the hards were more durable. I don't really consider the passing moves due to extreme tyre differences as overtakes, much like you wouldn't consider passing a backmarker an overtake. It is just a result of different strategies playing out and unfortunately these are then considered as 'false overtakes'. (DOF_Power would be having a field day this year! I think we need him back to make everyone else see the bright side of things a bit more often
) There were however some great moves today, in particular the Button Massa Rosberg moves which left me speechless for a good while, you just ahve to look out for the good ones amongst the easy.DRS has worked sometimes and not others - it has merely shifted the balance a little too far and now overtakes are a touch easy at times. I think it has been a little overused in the early races but they possibly wanted it to make an obvious change at first to avoid it being called useless (and some still did after Aus!). The best thing about DRS for me has been that it adds another layer of driver discrimination in qualifying, although I don't believe it should be free to use in the race. I also believe that if you had a sort of inverse DRS - increase downforce in the corners - the overtakes would look much better and use more skill, but unfortunately the risks of it failing are too great for this to be used.
All in all I think the regs changes haven't been bad but have just gone a little too far, but not by too much - we still have some great on track battles. I have still enjoyed racing this year although it seems there is little chance to stop and catch your breath - feel sorry for the commentators!
There is probably more I could have said about the rule changes but this is more than enough for now
If I've told you once I've told you a million times. Don't exaggerate!You are exaggerating more than anyone ever has on this site.
From James Allen's site - a poll on whether DRS in Turkey made overtaking too easy:
Yes 77.79% (508 votes)
No 14.09% (92 votes)
Undecided 8.12% (53 votes)
Total Votes: 653
You would think that given results like this, the fact media outlets such as the bbc are willing to say the DRS made it too easy, and what the drivers have said, that there will be further tweaks to the system to make DRS more limited in the future. This will never address the issue of people on different tyre states catching and overtaking with ease (not an issue in my books), but it will hopefully reduce the amount of free passes to some extent.
Yes 77.79% (508 votes)
No 14.09% (92 votes)
Undecided 8.12% (53 votes)
Total Votes: 653
You would think that given results like this, the fact media outlets such as the bbc are willing to say the DRS made it too easy, and what the drivers have said, that there will be further tweaks to the system to make DRS more limited in the future. This will never address the issue of people on different tyre states catching and overtaking with ease (not an issue in my books), but it will hopefully reduce the amount of free passes to some extent.
BlackCountryBob
Rookie
Think so fenderman, blogs in general are places for enthusiasts, well except for Belle De Jour 
Also feel as someone whose degree was focused on conducting social surveys; the question is quite leading and the article around it is engineered to achieve that result IMO.
If I were to sum up this entire thread in a football analogy, everyone loves a 4-3 thriller and to make this happen more often, the goal posts have been made bigger, but most think that maybe a little to big and would like a slight change to make that thriller special as a rare occurrence rather than every time because true appreciation of the game recognises that a good game is more than the number of goals scored and good defence is just as impressive as Messi like attack.
Just looking for a compromise between goals so small that no-one can ever score and so large that they score every time, like a motor racing equivelant of basketball.
Am I pretty much on the right lines?
Also feel as someone whose degree was focused on conducting social surveys; the question is quite leading and the article around it is engineered to achieve that result IMO.If I were to sum up this entire thread in a football analogy, everyone loves a 4-3 thriller and to make this happen more often, the goal posts have been made bigger, but most think that maybe a little to big and would like a slight change to make that thriller special as a rare occurrence rather than every time because true appreciation of the game recognises that a good game is more than the number of goals scored and good defence is just as impressive as Messi like attack.
Just looking for a compromise between goals so small that no-one can ever score and so large that they score every time, like a motor racing equivelant of basketball.
Am I pretty much on the right lines?
For now I think DRS is the silicone tit of contemporary F1 racing : something extra is added that doesn't feel right.
But the jury is still out on both...
But the jury is still out on both...
Mixed reactions from those in the business on the new regulations.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91298
I'm definitely sensing a lot of defensive statements there. Perhaps a lot of them realise how silly it has become but don't want to explicitly go on record as saying so?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91298
I'm definitely sensing a lot of defensive statements there. Perhaps a lot of them realise how silly it has become but don't want to explicitly go on record as saying so?
Andyoak
Champion Elect
Tyres: bigger gap between hard and soft needed and get rid of the silly rule where you have to use both sets. It should be a strategy choice decided by the team and driver.
KERS: No problem and it should be seen as part of the long term changes. By introducing it 2 years ago the FIA has allowed a certain amount of development costs for the 'new' engines to be spread out and be more affordable. Also, we need to recognise that engines will and need to change. Many of us would also like to see this tied in with decreasing fuel allowances.
DRS: Seems to be working but there will always be races where the zone isn't quite right (yesterdays being a case in point). Personally I want to see a complete relaxation on who and where it can be used and then I'll be a happy bunny.
I think the season and changes are shaping up nicely and we have seen some great over taking that still shows a great deal of skil... with the exception of MSC of course.
KERS: No problem and it should be seen as part of the long term changes. By introducing it 2 years ago the FIA has allowed a certain amount of development costs for the 'new' engines to be spread out and be more affordable. Also, we need to recognise that engines will and need to change. Many of us would also like to see this tied in with decreasing fuel allowances.
DRS: Seems to be working but there will always be races where the zone isn't quite right (yesterdays being a case in point). Personally I want to see a complete relaxation on who and where it can be used and then I'll be a happy bunny.
I think the season and changes are shaping up nicely and we have seen some great over taking that still shows a great deal of skil... with the exception of MSC of course.
I agree with you about tyres and KERS, but surely if the DRS was totally de-regulated it would become superfluous, as everyone would use it wherever they could and its effect would be cancelled out.
I like irishgreen's idea of freeing it up but limiting its use to a set number of seconds per lap, then it will become a matter of who makes best use of it, rather like the way the use of KERS seems to be panning out. Another tool within the drivers' control like that, but making them think about when and how they use it, can only be a good thing in my view.
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