Tesla Motors

Speshal

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
I don't think it is the right direction I think it is a gimmick that won't take off, also it all sounds very eco friendly but what about the batteries and their life expectancies it is not very eco friendly to produce these things or dispose of them, also it has been shown that quick charging batteries reduces their life spans enormously.....

As with any type of energy there is always a price to pay....
 
I can't help feel that battery cars are a blip. The future has to be Hydrogen powered cars. No recharge time. Fit a pump at existing petrol stations (like they did with LPG) , the infrastructure is already there.

Honda started building them in 2008 (just 200 mind). Toyota said recently they are also planning on selling 'tens of thousands' of hydrogen powered cars.
 
There may be a future depending on the advancement with battery technology, including things like structural batteries etc. The main problem with electric cars is the down time that is required while charging, along with the life and cost of the batteries.

I believe that hydrogen power could be the way forwards, depending on the ability to extract the hydrogen on the scale required, which (and I am not a scientist) to get to a usable scale could be costly.
 
The issue with any new car technology is infrastructure but that is something that will have to be implemented at some point, whatever form it takes. All the petrol stations will have to become charging points or hydrogen pumps in the end.

I would argue that perhaps the investment to make electric powered cars viable in terms of the day to day practicalities perhaps wouldn't be much more than for hydrogen fuel cell powered cars. I've heard the idea of battery exchange stations mentioned before (so you go to the "petrol" station and swap your depleted battery for a new one) and dare I mention the fact that the technology exists to charge batteries wirelessly (at least for small gadgets)? Could motorways and other main routes be fitted with systems that would charge the batteries as you go (or at least slow the drain)?
 
The guys who set the new UK land speed record are creating charging stations wher the batteries can be replenished in 20minutes, compared to 8 hours on 3 pin plug. The main problem I see is the range is still only 100 to 150 miles so a on 400 mile journey you can add 80 minutes for recharging the car.
 
It's a fascinating problem, where many different solutions have to work together. Different technologies fit better than others in different applications. So overnight-charged battery vehicles actually fit very well for the "short commute around town" problem, but are obviously much less suited to longer journeys.

We will also have different stages as the costs of technologies come down and the cost and availability of oil goes up. We might break it down (very roughly) into 1. "while we still have oil" and 2. "now we really don't have enough that's readily accessible":

In 1. (as we are seeing now), it's all about efficiency and doing the best with what resource we have remaining, hence the recent drive towards more efficient engines and the introduction of hybrids.
In 2. it's more about big changes in technology, infrastructure and human mentality as we get used to new energy vectors dominating.
Ideally, phase 1 tides us over while the required changes for phase 2 are developed and put in place. In reality, it'll be hugely more messy than that.

An interesting aside about how battery cars might fit in: Renewable energy is by nature very variable, and the peaks of production and demand very rarely match up, so vast amounts of energy storage will be required (and soon!) to smooth out the supply. Now imagine there is a large fleet of electric vehicles, a reasonable proportion of which are plugged in in their garages at any one time. Hey presto, we have an excellent distributed energy storage system, where electricity can be fed back into the grid at peak demand times. Obviously the specifics are a bit more complicated, but the potential is definitely there.

Another fascinating transport model envisions a move away from "I own my vehicle" to "I hire a vehicle from a large fleet when I need it" - combine that with the self-driving technology that's already becoming a reality, and you have a potentially brilliant commuter scheme, especially if businesses were to allow a little more flexibility in start and end times of the working day to optimise use of the fleet.
 
The Pits said:
There may be a future depending on the advancement with battery technology, including things like structural batteries etc. The main problem with electric cars is the down time that is required while charging, along with the life and cost of the batteries.

I believe that hydrogen power could be the way forwards, depending on the ability to extract the hydrogen on the scale required, which (and I am not a scientist) to get to a usable scale could be costly.
Click to expand

The only problem with hydrogen power is the (comparatively easily solvable) problem of handling the stuff so that you can put it in the hands of numpties at filling stations without them blowing up the whole town by accident.

As to supply, there's an infinite amount available. Just electrolyse the oceans, (say from solar arrays in deserted equatorial areas, zero cost once you've put in the PV panels) then bulk ship the liquid hydrogen as we already do with crude oil, or as gas as we already do with natural gas.

The only fly in the ointment is the oil companies and their considerably powerful vested interest.
 
the_roadie said:
The only problem with hydrogen power is the (comparatively easily solvable) problem of handling the stuff so that you can put it in the hands of numpties at filling stations without them blowing up the whole town by accident.
Click to expand
A potential problem, yes, but perhaps not as big as you might think: hydrogen is so buoyant that most leaks would disperse upwards pretty quickly :)
 
I was getting more to the fact that H[SUB]2[/SUB] molecules are so small that conventional (i.e. cheap and readily available) gas seals tend to be a bit colander-ish with hydrogen, the ones for H[SUB]2[/SUB] have to be incredibly precisely engineered.
It's not the natural low-level seepage that's a problem, it's the possiblilty of a leak that is.
There's also that liquid H[SUB]2[/SUB] is bloody cold and a way has to be found for us motorists to be able to handle it without full PPE when we go for a fill-up at the petrol station.
There are a few around but they're a bit specialised and not (yet) mainstream and within the grasp of us proles.
 
Yes, you're quite right - I was being a little facetious! I used to work for a fuel cell company, which had some interesting hydrogen safety issues to consider. :o


Liquid H2 is cold yes, at atmospheric pressure - you can still contain it under pressure at normal temperatures though.
 
Last month the "Auto dealers of America" sued Tesla because they are not selling they vehicles through dealers which supposedly is against the laws. Dealers are actually "protecting" the interest of consumers, or so they say:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/10/27/is-tesla-selling-its-cars-illegally/

However a judge has denied the preliminary injunction against Tesla,

http://www.siliconbeat.com/2012/11/20/tesla-motors-wins-a-round-against-the-auto-dealers/

This is not going to go away, if you saw "Who Killed the Electric Car?" you know what I'm talking about.
 

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