Safety Car madness

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Brogan said:
Instead of operating to a 'delta' time of 120% of a regular F1 lap before the cars form up behind the safety car, as under the old regulations, drivers will instead be forced to slow down to the actual estimated speed of the safety car itself.

The idea of slowing cars this much will be to ensure there is no possibility of a driver overtaking the safety car – as Lewis Hamilton did on the run out of the first corner at Valencia.

Drivers are due to conduct experiments with the new delta time after free practice at Silverstone on Friday and Saturday, with the new delta time being used for the first time in the race on Sunday unless any unforeseen major problems after thrown up beforehand.

The slower delta time will prevent drivers getting a benefit by being ahead of the safety car on road.

The FIA has also reacted to the problems drivers had of breaking the delta time in Valencia, after only finding out about the safety car towards the end of the lap, by making it clear that they will be exempt from the new safety car speed limit for the final 200 metres of the lap.
So, the Safety Car rules have been complicated yet again, with rather than getting to some semi-arbritrary ? time, the drivers will be driving to an 'estimated speed'.

Of course, this has the potential to go wrong in many different ways (because it is stupid), primarily that an F1 car cannot catch a Safety Car it is going at the same speed as. Also, if a train forms behind the Safety Car this is illegal!

It is of course dangerous to have cars scattered around the track with marshalls trying to work, and would make the clean-up take much longer!

A solution? Since the race is neutralised, there would be no difference if the organisers elected to drop the red flag if an incident occured, getting the drivers to form up on the grid. To restart, just do one lap under SC and roll it. That means there is only a single lap of the race lost. [My plan does not include aggregation, I think you should overtake to pass someone!]

But it does not even need to be that drastic. The Safety Car rules caused few problems in the past before Formula One got too clever for its own good. I watched Safety Cars for 10 years, long before ? times were invented. I don't remember the level of recrimination or problem when Mika Hakkinen lined up behind the Safety Car!

The only problem in my experience with the Safety Car rules was the "pit lane closed" rule, but with no refuelling in F1 anymore, that rule now would be an utterly sensible way of acting, to stop the madness that killed Ferrari in Valencia.

I feel that the 2007 German European Grand Prix was not weakened for the application of my rule above, and I feel that the 2010 British/German/Hungarian... whenever could be seriously destroyed by the attempted application of a bonkers SC rule!
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
I really am struggling to understand how it will work.

It just seems like another knee-jerk reaction after what happened in Valencia.

Why not just close the pits for 1-2 laps?
There's no refuelling now so no chance of cars running out of fuel.

Even if someone's tyres are on their last legs, they should be able to last for 2 laps behind the safety car.

I'm just waiting for it to all go horribly wrong the first time it's used only for the rules to be changed again.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Brogan said:
I'm just waiting for it to all go horribly wrong the first time it's used only for the rules to be changed again
There are just so many problems that will lead to so many +5 second penalties. It is just ... bonkers.
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
Closing the pits is something that crossed my mind until the Trulli saftey car train had formed up after a lap or two. Only thing is that would need a major clarification for those in genuine need on the face of it like a lost nose, 3 wheels on my wagon or punctured.
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
They are all just clutching at straws. These changes will mean nothing the first time a SC comes out at the wrong time.

If the cars are on the S/F straight, there will also be unfortunates, and people coming up to the pit entrance will always pit and gain an advantage.

I echo the point about the cars not being able to bunch up. Whats the point in having a SC? Just give them really slow lap times to run around on and do away with the SC altogether. Outrageous
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Precisely.

Bearing in mind the main purpose of the SC is to bunch up the pack to give the marshals a clear window in which to work each lap, it's a nonsense to get all cars to circulate at the same speed as it.

It just makes no sense at all.

Why not get rid of the SC altogether?
 

Matthew Little

Points Scorer
Brogan said:
I really am struggling to understand how it will work.

It just seems like another knee-jerk reaction after what happened in Valencia.

Why not just close the pits for 1-2 laps?
There's no refuelling now so no chance of cars running out of fuel.

Even if someone's tyres are on their last legs, they should be able to last for 2 laps behind the safety car.

I'm just waiting for it to all go horribly wrong the first time it's used only for the rules to be changed again.
As screwed up as IndyCar can be at times, their pace car rules are something F1 needs to look at. The way it works on the road/street circuits is as follows...........besides the Lead Pace Car, there are at least 2-3 additional Pace Cars stationed at various points along the track(for instance, at Watkins Glen, the PCs' would be at the exit of pitlane, the Inner Loop, and the area btwn. the entrance/exit of the Boot section). Depending on where the leaders are located, the PC closest to them picks up the leaders when the caution comes out and leads them around to the S/F straight, where the LPC then takes over. As this is going on, race control closes pitlane until the LPC has picked up the leader(and by extension the field as a whole).

Of course, considering the geniuses who run F1, FOM, the FIA, etc.,etc.,etc.,.........this makes too much sense for them to ever adopt it. But it's worth a thought. :o :o :o :o :o
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Apparently the changes have been dropped even before they were first used.

I suspect the testing yesterday after FP2 showed just how nonsensical they were.

The only change that is being kept is the final 200 metres exemption.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
The FIA has also reacted to the problems drivers had of breaking the delta time in Valencia, after only finding out about the safety car towards the end of the lap, by making it clear that they will be exempt from the new safety car speed limit for the final 200 metres of the lap.
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
I'm glad they realized how ridiculous it would be to have the cars slow to the SC speed immediately, and then maintain that slow pace indefinitely.

They also rectified the main issue involved in the Valencia mayhem.
Furthermore, the FIA will also reserve the right to delay sending out the safety car itself on to track during a caution period, so there is no chance of it splitting up a leading gaggle of cars.
Although this latest decision shows how utterly reactionary the FIA was to change the SC Rules immediately after Valencia, they are correct in admitting their mistake and reverting back to the "old" method.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Whilst I agree in principle with that, I though the overriding concern was to despatch the SC and medical car as quickly as possible, irrespective of where the other cars are on the circuit?
Especially for a crash as big as Webber's.

What the FIA's saying with this latest change is that the show is more important than safety :s
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
I totally concur that safety should be the overriding concern, and that it may seem a bit crass to ensure that the SC doesn't interfere with a leading pack of cars, but to me it is just common sense that cars within a second or two of each other shouldn't be split up by a Safety Car.

Maybe they should dispatch the Medical Car immediately, irrespective of any car(s) location on the circuit, and then allow cars to overtake the Medical Car if they are not in the sector where the incident is.

I guess I'm just elated that they're not going to bring the race to a grinding halt when a stricken car has to be removed from the track. I can't imagine how long SC periods would have been if all the cars had to slow to just above pit lane speeds.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
I'm not going to argue with any of your points.

I think the main problem is the FIA itself doesn't know what it's doing.
 

Matthew Little

Points Scorer
Brogan said:
..................I think the main problem is the FIA itself doesn't know what it's doing.

I don't think they've ever known what they were doing. Then again, things could be worse..........F1 could have Tony George and Brian Barnhart running things............. :o :o :o :o :o :o
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
KekeTheKing said:
Maybe they should dispatch the Medical Car immediately, irrespective of any car(s) location on the circuit, and then allow cars to overtake the Medical Car if they are not in the sector where the incident is.
I'd agree with that. Where the Safety Car itself is concerned, its main purpose is surely to be deployed at such a time that it picks up the leader straight away, thus avoiding the confusion of having the Safety Car physically anywhere bar in front of the leader. The Safety Car is not rushing to the scene of anything; that is the Medical Car's job!

With the GPS they've got, that shouldn't be too difficult!
 
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