Current Mercedes

Il_leone

Champion Elect
I'd very much doubt the FIA will do anything because Mercedes did not win the race for a start . For a start everyone pretty much well know if a Red Bull was behind a Toro Rosso chances are they will be let through because the Toro Rosso drivers know that they could be doing something to help their future aspirations which is what Ocon did

With Ferrari, people will still accuse Sauber and Haas not putting much a fight against them so how do they prove it unless they've got all the radio conversations
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
Two or even three wrongs don't make a right.

Also I'd love to hear the reaction if Haas told Kevin Magnusen he had to pull over and let a Ferrari through.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Before people get all up in arms about this , I am sure team bosses speak to one another on the grid and discuss race plans and some even will gentlemanly ask their drivers to move out of the way because they did not want to ruin the championship fights at the front

I am sure if there are particular drivers the front runners are worried about, there is always conversations about drivers behaving properly and toeing the line so to speak

I am not saying what supposedly happened between Toto and Force India is correct but where is the line drawn where the leading teams bosses cannot have a chat with the midfield and back of the grid teams then
 

Dartman

Podium Finisher
We've been cheated out of races for years, probably since F1 was introduced, there were all sorts of tricks from the beginning including the high powered hare that rushed off with the intention of breaking the opposition, sometimes with a top driver, others with a quickish driver, if a top driver, he had a team mate nursing a car for him to take over when his blew up or even crashed. Peterson was never allowed to race Andretti, similar to Schumacher and Alonso with their various team mates, or should that be underlings and rear gunners. With todays cars being so reliable and safe with circuits to match racing has been sanitized and it's just a procession unless the computers get it wrong on tyre choice and pit stop timing, the racing is done in the pits and factory the cars circulate to orders.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
I am not saying what supposedly happened between Toto and Force India is correct but where is the line drawn where the leading teams bosses cannot have a chat with the midfield and back of the grid teams then
There should be no chats at all. That's where the line should be drawn. Regardless of which team and when.

Let's say the Ferrari powered Toro Rosso that took Seb to victory in Italy in 2008 was asked to mysteriously pit and come out behind Massa but ahead of Hamilton. That extra point for Massa would have made him 2008 world champion. That's ok though because it was just a chat between team bosses and all fair in love and war etc?

After all, Toro Rosso were never, ever in the title race that season so what right did Seb have to go on and win the race ??

Where do we stop ??
 

Dartman

Podium Finisher
The phrase "team mates" is not literal, it's just a description of any driver in the same team to another driver in that team that started in that race together, other descriptions are "normal team mate" and "previous team mate" with regard to F1 they are not mates or friends and as far as I understand none have mated:whistle: though that was a possibility in the 70's there is no rumour or even proofLOL
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Do we know if Force India specifically told Ocon to move over for Hamilton? If there was a radio message telling him to do this Force India, or Ocon at least, should be excluded from the result.

If it transpires that Mercedes asked or requested that Force India move their cars out of the way should the Mercedes be behind the FI, Mercedes should also be excluded from the results.

It should only be at this race, if it happens again it should only be at that race, and not just Mercedes and Force India but any team(s). They will eventually get the message but the FIA are spineless and too scared of upsetting the teams to take any action.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Johnny Herbert wrote in his recent biography that he was told to move over (or assist in some way, I can't quite remember) for Ferrari, when he was at Sauber. He didn't do it in the end because either he or the Ferrari broke down. He says he challenged Peter Sauber over it and says he refused to play along and ultimately it soured his relationship with the team and resulted in him leaving for Stewart.
 

racecub

Champion Elect
Do we know if Force India specifically told Ocon to move over for Hamilton? If there was a radio message telling him to do this Force India, or Ocon at least, should be excluded from the result.

If it transpires that Mercedes asked or requested that Force India move their cars out of the way should the Mercedes be behind the FI, Mercedes should also be excluded from the results.

It should only be at this race, if it happens again it should only be at that race, and not just Mercedes and Force India but any team(s). They will eventually get the message but the FIA are spineless and too scared of upsetting the teams to take any action.
Why should Mercedes be excluded from the results? Is it illegal that Ocon moved over easily? What if it was in his interests to move over? The FIA are spineless, I agree with that, which is why there’s no way they will ever say Ferrari cheated on the battery thing...too much at risk. They can't afford to disqualify a major team for cheating.
The FIA wont ban either Mercedes or Ferrari.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
cider_and_toast People were cynically suggesting Vettel was making a nuisance of himself at the last race in 2008 pressuring Hamilton because his car was powered by a Ferrari engine to help Massa win the title

What about Schumacher surrendering his position in his last race without much fight to Vettel in Brazil then because he wanted his fellow countryman to win?

What about the accusation that Petrov deliberately held up Alonso in Abu Dhabi so Red Bull powered by Renault could win?

Yes the FIA are spineless because they are managed by a tortoise ( always hiding in his shell) not a frog metaphorically speaking and really not displaying leadership and authority when needed most
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
racecub if Mercedes have directly asked Force India to get out of their way to my mind this is bringing the sport in to disrepute as they are using the power they have on driver and engine contracts to inlfluence other teams to create an unfair advantage. The same would be true if Ferrari put the same pressure on Haas or Sauber. The situation with Red Bull and Toro Rosso is, to my mind, slightly different as they are owned by the same man. I'm not sure how you get round that.
 

Dartman

Podium Finisher
Hamilton has asked for "team mates" to move over but he hasn't had much success in that respect, when it did happen they swapped back. Moving over has been going on for years for various reasons but only lately has it become a problem for fans as it's due to engine supplier team conditions and and common owners or co-owners of some teams. Previous move overs were national, private arrangements and possibly common sponsorship, but except for Ferrari and BRM most of the teams in the past had Ford engines or an independent supplier.
 

racecub

Champion Elect
They all do it, for various reasons: on different strategies, protecting team points, one driver is in championship contention the other isn’t, favours for another team. It’s not against the rules to move aside for someone.

I’d get something for that cough RasputinLives LOL
When Hamilton asked to be let past Bottas to have a go at the car in front, he handed back the place even when he had a huge lead over Bottas after failing to take the driver in front. He did so at the risk of being overtaken from the car behind Bottas and to the annoyance of Niki Lauda. I can’t see Vettel, or Verstappen for that matter, acting like that in similar circumstances. Ricciardo I think would act honourably.
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
Yeah it's not like Vettel has let Ricciardo through on team orders before......hang on...he has?!? Twice? Funny how that never gets mentioned when people are dangling their fishing rods.

Edit in case your memory is poor:

Sebastian Vettel accepts team orders, lets teammate pass at F1 Chinese Grand Prix

Edit again a reminder:

Bottas: Team orders "the worst thing to hear" · RaceFans

Edit oh and this:

Lewis Hamilton could be suspended by Mercedes for defying team orders during dramatic Abu Dhabi finale

So there all just as honourable as each other.
 
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