Current Kimi Räikkönen

So you're saying Kimi wasn't unhappy and didn't talk to the Finnish press and the Finnish press didn't report it?

I don't understand why this would be disputable. Ferrari were under orders in the last few races of the 2008 season. Raikkonen was mathematically out of the WDC and Massa was maintaining the lead with Hamilton down in 5th with either Massa or Hamilton on the cusp of the title depending on final finishing order of the Brazilian GP. Ferrari wanted to maintain maximum points gap from Massa to Hamilton and a tangle between Raikkonen and Alonso in a fight for 2nd would have given Hamilton the WDC on a plate.

It's would be logical for Ferrari to ask Raikkonen to hold station and not put either his own car or Alonso's car under stress.
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
I'm saying that we can't take the word of the Finnish press as complete fact, all newspapers are the same, they will have taken Kimi's words and exaggerated them....
 
Yes but clearly what was done by Ferrari was done based on logic for a team interested in winning the WDC in 2008. I can fully appreciate what Ferrari did...and I can also appreciate Raikkonen obeying the order for the team's benifit...but then also not being really happy about not being allowed to fully race Alonso.

Racing drivers are racing drivers but they're also part of a team.
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
I'm not saying Raikkonen wasn't happy, (Is he ever happy?) and that he would be understanably unhappy about having to cecede to Massa in 2008. But the Finnish press would no doubt exaggerate it to make it seem like he hated it at Ferrari and couldn't wait to leave, look at what the British press are doing to Hamilton at the moment.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
The Finnish press do actually tend to bash Raikkonen themselves (because he refuses to talk about his personal life unlike Hakkinen), not saying it's reliable, but if they bash him and yet come out with what Ray says then, there is a strong possibilty that it is quite accurate.
 

Sarinaide

Banned
When we take the talent, then factoring in that he had become F1's official "I-specialist" that is the reason why not many teams were willing to pay him a hefty amount of money and deal with his handbags.

If the car was good enough to drive him to success, you got the beaming smile, then on the converse if something went wrong it was always the car and machanics fault.

Sadly his true skills never got tested outside of McLaren and Ferrari so nobody really knows if he was a top team driver or real deal.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
If the car was good enough to drive him to success, you got the beaming smile, then on the converse if something went wrong it was always the car and machanics fault.

Sadly his true skills never got tested outside of McLaren and Ferrari so nobody really knows if he was a top team driver or real deal.
Not once did I here Raikkonen blame the mechanics, wouldn't be surprised if he blamed the car. His car was always the one with the problems at McLaren, and then Ferrari didn't have bulletproof reliability either.

He worked his way through the car problems in 2007 to get the car in his way, did the same in 2008, but the team did it too late, and he did it in 2009.

His 2009 season especially the second half, in a very midfield car, he managed to win in, and get a string of pofiums, so to me he deifinitely was a top team driver and the real deal, getting a point in your first race in a Sauber with only 19 open wheel races, and back when the points system was up to 6th place he scored a point in his first race, I would call that very impressive.

A driver that was at the wrong place at the wrong time in his career.
 

F1ang-o

Race Winner
Contributor
To compare Kimi to James Hunt is somewhat wrong..Hunt was the first real playboy of F1 and everything he did then off track was rather unprofessional with his crazy partying and the women he scored with...only really Eddie Irvine developed a reputation like that in recent times but not even on Hunt's level who turned up drunk for one test !

Kimi's unique in a way and took the name the Iceman to a new level from Hakkinen who remember cried in the bushes after crashing.

Kimi was the fastest over 1 lap but it was his application which people questioned especially 2009 when Ferrari really expected him to do a Schumacher and hold the team together which he did not which was one of the reasons why Luca sort to replace him

Having said that when he first joined there were saying that he was attentive to detail and hard working but probably not quite in the way Schumacher operated like an efficient machine

it could be argued though he did deserve more than 1 world title though
I agree.....but IMO the one he won belonged to Lewis Hamilton.
 

F1ang-o

Race Winner
Contributor
The fact is....Raikkonen won it, and that isn't going to change.

And he equally deserved it.
As in the Beatles song..... "I get by with a little help from my friends"
2007 Brazil..Massa had along pit stop...........& Kimi got by.

That's not to say I don't think Kimi is a great racer.......& along with Kubica, are missed...they are both Top Drawer.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
...and if my Dad had bosoms he'd be my Mum. Let's not get into the whole 2007 discussion again Kimi won the Championship over the course of the season not just in one race, in the same way Lewis and Fernando lost it.
 
How does that work?
It works like this, At the start every driver knows the rules, and knows that all he has to do is beat the other drivers according to the rules, so they all proceed to compete within the rules

The rules say that if 2 drivers have the same points then the driver with the better quality points wins, in the case of countback, better quality means that a second is judged higher than a third etc etc

Its like if 2 teams in a Champions league tie finish with same amount of goals, but one team scored more away goals, they are then declared the winner, as the superior result achiever

In 2007 Lewis BEAT Alonso to second place, if Kimi had not outpointed both then rookie Lewis would have WON because of the superiority of the nature of his points over 2 x reining WC Alonso

This is not about Lewis dominating his WC team-mate in qualifying or in races, its about the rules

Thats how it works
 

Sarinaide

Banned
"Quality Points" thats a good one,.....thank heavens Kimi did win.

Comparing Football to the Away Goals Rule or Goal Difference is different to this rather dubious "Quality Points" criteria, as far as I see it, if you out qualify your team mate x times but finish on the same points, he has better points converstion.....as we know qualification means nothing on sunday (championship wise). It just goes back to the reason why Michael Schumacher is the greatest with 60 odd poles and 92 wins thats excellent.

At least for Kimi he left formula one attaining what his potential believed he would, a WDC it may have been a crying shame if he had not won it.
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
I have to say the phrase 'better quality points' makes me shudder.

I thought it was just refered to as countback. Most 1st, if thats even then move on to most 2nds, then most 3rds etc etc.

Lewis finished in front because he had 5 second places compared to Fernando's 4 - I don't think the 'quality' of the points was ever considered.

Anyways Kimi deserved the title in 2007. I think the focus not being on him really helped but 5 wins, 2 seconds, 2 thirds and one mechnical retirement from the last 10 races is championship winning form in anyone's book. Plus people forget that Alonso and Hamilton weren't the only compeating team-mates that year - Kimi had to handle Massa as well - With 5 races left Massa was actually in front of Kimi in the championship. It was only after a retirment in Italy and then a 6th place in Japan that Fellipe was really considered out of the title race and started playing for the team - thats 2 races and he only came into effect in 1 really.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I'm pretty sure Cookinflatsix has just invented the rather distasteful phrase "Quality Points", I believe countback is the usual term. It applies down to 11ths, 12ths etc. so its nothing to do with points actually.

For example, HRT were ahead of Virgin in last year's WCC on countback.
 
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