Juan Pablo Montoya

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
FB- How can you say he didn't belong in an F1 car when he finished a very close 3rd in the WDC standings in 2003, in a far-from-best car?
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
FB- How can you say he didn't belong in an F1 car when he finished a very close 3rd in the WDC standings in 2003, in a far-from-best car?
Ralph Schumacher won 6 Grands Prix and finished 4th in the WDC 2 seasons in succession. Is it the car? Is it the driver? J-P M 2003 - Car. RSC 2001 & 2002 - Car.
 

racecub

Champion Elect
No, not stupid, per se - just incapable of playing the waiting game and, as a consequence, queering his own pitch. I loved his enthusiasm and speed and, very occasionally, his recklessness - ultimately none of it did him any good because he put no thought into what he was trying to achieve.
Well I think he did put thought in but he wasnt prepared to sell his soul like some drivers do. He was a fair racer,hard but fair and as you say fast and enthusiatic. Also beathtakingly exciting. But he didnt sell out. Ok he didnt win but he left with his integrity intact. You cant say that about them all, and some of them are world champions, muliple even!
 

RasputinLives

Not dead
Contributor
Well I think he did put thought in but he wasnt prepared to sell his soul like some drivers do. He was a fair racer,hard but fair and as you say fast and enthusiatic. Also beathtakingly exciting. But he didnt sell out. Ok he didnt win but he left with his integrity intact. You cant say that about them all, and some of them are world champions, muliple even!
Please define to me how a driver sell's out. JPM played the sponsor game just as much as anyone - or are you suggesting because he didn't learn from his mistakes and adjust his driving style to one that would bring him the title that he somehow has more integrity?
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
FB- Do you seriously believe that Liuzzi could have acheived the same or better results in the 2003 Williams?
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
I'm not saying Montoya wasn't without talent just that he wasn't as good as many built him up to be. Let's face it many mediocre drivers have achieved great things in exceptional cars - two are currently sitting on the grid in 2012, Webber and Massa.
 

racecub

Champion Elect
Please define to me how a driver sell's out. JPM played the sponsor game just as much as anyone - or are you suggesting because he didn't learn from his mistakes and adjust his driving style to one that would bring him the title that he somehow has more integrity?
I wasnt meaning taking sponsors or learning/not learning from mistakes. I was meaning not liking and therfore not accepting decisions made purely for political reasons. Not accepting a second fiddle role like Massa has and like Barichello did. Not driving dirty to win like Schumacher did. Not walking over your team mate like Schumacher did and Alonso does. I didn't want to name names but since you missed my point I have. JPM wanted to race racing cars not win at any cost. Well thats how I saw him anyway. he saw the way things were going, didnt like it, got out.
Edit. And he was talented. And he was a real racer.
 

Josh

Champion Elect
Well I'm not sure how he can say he doesn't drive dirty or doesn't want to win at all costs... But maybe that's just me :p
 

RasputinLives

Not dead
Contributor
I wasnt meaning taking sponsors or learning/not learning from mistakes. I was meaning not liking and therfore not accepting decisions made purely for political reasons. Not accepting a second fiddle role like Massa has and like Barichello did. Not driving dirty to win like Schumacher did. Not walking over your team mate like Schumacher did and Alonso does. I didn't want to name names but since you missed my point I have. JPM wanted to race racing cars not win at any cost. Well thats how I saw him anyway. he saw the way things were going, didnt like it, got out.
Edit. And he was talented. And he was a real racer.
What does he was a 'real racer' mean? Others don't bother racing? Its all subjective - as is 'driving dirty to win' - he had a fair few coming togethers and incidents with people to the point where he was declared dangerous - anyone remember Monaco? -

As for second fiddle - he was very much second fiddle to Kimi and couldn't cope with it so had a wobbley and stomped off out of F1.

It can all be viewed from different angles can't it? All depends if your a fan or not. So lets not throw around statements like 'real racer' and 'sell out'.

Personally I think he was very talented but faced with the might that was Schmacher he didn't stand a chance and come 2003 he realised it and his ego couldn't cope with it.
 

racecub

Champion Elect
What does he was a 'real racer' mean? Others don't bother racing? Its all subjective - as is 'driving dirty to win' - he had a fair few coming togethers and incidents with people to the point where he was declared dangerous - anyone remember Monaco? -

As for second fiddle - he was very much second fiddle to Kimi and couldn't cope with it so had a wobbley and stomped off out of F1.

It can all be viewed from different angles can't it? All depends if your a fan or not. So lets not throw around statements like 'real racer' and 'sell out'.

Personally I think he was very talented but faced with the might that was Schmacher he didn't stand a chance and come 2003 he realised it and his ego couldn't cope with it.
Oh he could handle Shumacher. Scared he certainly wasnt. And he didnt play second fiddle to Kimi. Granted the final McLaren car suited Kimi better than Juan, but he wasnt playing second fiddle.
Im not saying he didnt have accidents, Thats what happens when you race cars but he didn't take other drivers out deliberately as some drivers do.
As you say, how you view him will depend on whether you like what you see, whether your a fan. Well I am, so Im putting the positive view.
 

RasputinLives

Not dead
Contributor
Oh he could handle Shumacher. Scared he certainly wasnt. And he didnt play second fiddle to Kimi. Granted the final McLaren car suited Kimi better than Juan, but he wasnt playing second fiddle.
Im not saying he didnt have accidents, Thats what happens when you race cars but he didn't take other drivers out deliberately as some drivers do.
As you say, how you view him will depend on whether you like what you see, whether your a fan. Well I am, so Im putting the positive view.
If he could handle Schumacher how come he never beat him? Even in 03 when he had the best car? and if he wasn't playing second fiddle to Kimi why did he play his back-up driver for Kimi's 05 championship challenge?

As for him not being dangerous - I think David Coulthard, Jaques Villeneurve and Ralf Schumacher might disagree with you after the incident in quali coming up Casino hill - and thats without even asking Michael after the tunnel incident and all those people he took off in Canada.

Believe it or not I quite liked Montoya but lets not paint him as something he isn't and glorifying him as some sort of true pure racing driver. He wasn't he had a lot of skill and flare, he had a lot of potential but unfourtunatly he took part in a era when there were drivers with more and he cracked under the pressure of it eventually and sulked off out of F1 mid-season.

Good job for you he did actually Racecub or we might very well have had to wait a tad longer for a certain Lewis Hamilton.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
When he was team-mate to a top quality driver, he folded. In hindsight, Williams pawned off a better driver to bring him in.
 

racecub

Champion Elect
When he was team-mate to a top quality driver, he folded. In hindsight, Williams pawned off a better driver to bring him in.
No he was better than Kimi. The car didnt suit. If he'd had the 2007 car things would have been very different
 
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