Honda

[F1Brits_90]

How much $$$ and how many years to get that win?

i heard rumoured during a practice session. potentially a billion dollars

 

[cider_and_toast]

Honda engineers give permission for engine to be ran at "11" and manage to win a race at the same time a decision is looming in Japan over whether to continue the program.

If that wasn't enough, Max is alleged to have a clause in his contract that if he is not in the top 3 by the summer break he can look for other drives.

Red Bulls dramatic upturn in performance a coincidence?

 

[Il_leone]

Ruslan You have to blame both Honda and Mclaren for not compromising to get there faster. Mclaren because they (Ron) insisted on exclusive deal which meant no one to compare data with, Honda because they only insist on hiring internally and working in Japan when their European base was based in the UK - which meant they could have hired ex Merc, ex Williams , ex Renault and ex Red Bull guys and worked a lot more closer to get results.

It was obvious that Red Bull and Honda would get the results more quickly given they have their sister team as a guinea pig for engine data

Something Mclaren should have learned for the future.

Its costs billions but that is because Honda had to pay off Mclaren quite a huge amount to sever as well as fund the bruising project which was in danger of dragging Mclaren down for good

 

[Il_leone]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/seidl-refuses-to-be-drawn-on-honda-regrets/

To be honest Mclaren have moved back up to the top 5 with Renault so Seidl is correct to not talk about regrets

 

[cider_and_toast]

We all know Honda needed to get the miles on their engine to build reliability and performance. Once they built an engine mule to tramp around with then things improved. That said, Ron Dennis's silly decision to hamstring Honda in an exclusive deal did as much damage in terms of development miles.

 

[RasputinLives]

The mule really was the key!

 

[Ruslan]

Ruslan You have to blame both Honda and Mclaren for not compromising to get there faster. Mclaren because they (Ron) insisted on exclusive deal which meant no one to compare data with, Honda because they only insist on hiring internally and working in Japan when their European base was based in the UK - which meant they could have hired ex Merc, ex Williams , ex Renault and ex Red Bull guys and worked a lot more closer to get results.

It was obvious that Red Bull and Honda would get the results more quickly given they have their sister team as a guinea pig for engine data

Something Mclaren should have learned for the future.

Its costs billions but that is because Honda had to pay off Mclaren quite a huge amount to sever as well as fund the bruising project which was in danger of dragging Mclaren down for good

Well, Mercedes spent at least $700 million to develop their original engine before it was ever ran in anger, Honda spend $1 billion overall on engine development over the last few years, don't know what Ferrari and Renault spent, but can't envision it is significantly less......this just does not look like an attractive environment for a new engine manufacturer to enter. How many minutes of TV ad time can I buy for $1 billion? How much positive advertising has Honda received from F1?

 

[F1Brits_90]

very true mule was huge & if McLaren had allowed a sister team. it wouldn't have taken til 2018 for them to realise it was the car that had too much drag & could've sort it for 2016 & gotten further up order quicker

 

[Il_leone]

Honda has not received positive advertising because its at the back of the grid and even their home race its plain to see the engine is awful

 

[Bill Boddy]

Ruslan ...It was obvious that Red Bull and Honda would get the results more quickly given they have their sister team as a guinea pig for engine data....

Honda have not improved their results solely because of the efforts of Red Bull, they also had all those years of work done whilst they were with McLaren.

 

[Il_leone]

Bill Boddy Whilst correct in that aspect. It was obvious if you have a team to compare data with then Honda might start understanding where the problems are more easily which Ron Dennis refuses to acknowledge

Incidentally apparently the Honda engine was on the edge at Austria due to the temperature issues

 

[FB]

Yeah, but it still won didn't it. Well done them for sticking with it despite all the shit Alonso and McLaren threw at them. It would have been very easy to walk away.

 

[RasputinLives]

Let's remember also that the other engine suppliers made it as hard as possible for Honda to get to where they are with ridiculous rules when they first entered. It would have been very easy to say stuff off just like Aston Martin and Porsche have when dipping their toe in the water.

 

[Il_leone]

well lets hope other engine suppliers can come into F1 because right now they are all going to Formula E instead

 

[RasputinLives]

With the current rules and the way it's set up so that the "big 2's" advantage can never be erroded then we won't.

 

[Il_leone]

Perhaps we should just call it Formula Mercedes - Ferrari then

 

[Bill Boddy]

Yeah, but it still won didn't it. Well done them for sticking with it despite all the shit Alonso and McLaren threw at them. It would have been very easy to walk away.

If you really want to talk about shit try the first test that McLaren had, or rather didn't had. How many engines have Honda supplied sincre they came back and how many penalty place did McLaren have as a result?

 

[Il_leone]

The ridiculous 105 grid place penalty sticks to mind. I think with the amount of grid penalties Honda had with Mclaren in 2015 - it added to being 1 lap behind on the starting grid