Current Fernando Alonso

Suprised there's no thread (although I had one for his blogs), so i'll start off:

A double world championship vs Raikkonen and then Schumacher in 2005 and 2006 respectively elevated Alonso's status but, apparently, no one told his rookie teammate at his brand new team of a theoretical 'pecking order' the following season ... and the Spaniard was 'seen off' by the young Englishman, Hamilton, into two years of Wilderness while both Hamilton and an even younger Vettel began to make their mark through '08 and '09.

Arguably, Alonso was in the Top 3 of all the Formula One 'Aces' in the 2000s following Hakkinen's retirement - up there with either Schumacher/Raikkonen and, then, Raikkonen/Hamilton - and remains so in the early 2010s along with Hamilton/Vettel...with only Kubica knocking on the door until the Pole's horrible Rallying accident.

A question mark initially over 2004 during which Trulli lead him in the standing until the Italian fell out with ex-manager and team boss Flavio Briatore (Alonso's then business manager) under dubious circumstances after the French Grand Prix.

Another question mark is...Who has progressed more since the end of 2007: Hamilton or Alonso?

A fan. Then came the unfortunate blackmail allegations against McLaren boss Ron Dennis on the morning of the 2007 Hungarian GP which came to light at the highly costly FIA 'Spy-Gate' hearings before Spa...followed by the odour of the deliberate crashing of the Number 2 Renault car at Singapore in 2008 which lead to Alonso finishing 1st in the event and ended in the banning of Briatore and Pat Symmonds a year later.

2009 was a poor year with 'Nando's' mind likely on the prospect of Santander paving the way to better prospects at Maranello one year earlier.

2010 was a fresh start at Ferrari (who no longer had Schumacher walking through the premises regularly) but first half season mistakes ultimately cost him a title inspite of being infamously aided by a Team Orders switch w Massa at Hockenheim (which lead to more world-wide criticism).

Relatively fast, relatively consistent but prone to mistakes and a possible insecurity complex (*) based on wanting sole focus from a team and being only happy with a Number 2 in the other car running behind him. Anything else and it seemingly rattles him.

(*) This is my own personal opinion.

..and so to 2011...

He's underperformed only at Malaysia (hit Hamilton) and China (invisible while Massa challenged McLarens and Red Bulls) and, arguably, Canada...but has maximized his chances in the other 6 races culminating in the British GP win.

He said in his post-Monaco blog that 'Silverstone would be the WDC cut-off'...and so, after some major upgrades, the Ferrari looks a winner again. It might be too late for 2011 given Vettel's finishing rate...but the 2012 regs means they should keep the hammer down at Maranello.

He's signed on through to 2016...So hopes are high of a WDC at some juncture...but not yet.

 

[Kewee]

RasputinLives - No he caused a red flag by full pelting it through the penultimate corner under Safety Car.

Didn't he ignore a red flag in the practice session of the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix by needlessly overtook Robert Doornbos.

You know exactly which incident from 2007 I could refer to regards on track behavior, so I'm not going to bother.

Don't try to rewrite history, Kewee.

I didn't say Alonso hadn't had any accidents just that they were few, even in the early stages of his career. The flags went unnoticed by other divers also in Brazil and at the time of Alonso's massive shunt he and others were also unaware of the safety car. Alonso's accident happened before the start/finish line when he would have become aware of the safety car. I'm not anti Vettel anymore incidentally, in fact I've been singing his praises for a while now, but that doesn't mean he's always driven at the level he's achieving now. As I said, his career as recently as a couple of years ago had quite a few shockers, some involving his teammate, an absolute no no in any teams eyes, you should never take your teammate out, another of course when he took the defending champion (Button) out at Spa. These are all past tense of course and in no way detract from his stunning and deserved achievements, but his incidents number far greater than Alonso's ever have.

 

[Kewee]

RasputinLives …. Maybe your the only one that believes if McLaren had worked at helping their drivers work together it wouldn't have made a difference. Two of the worlds leading drivers working together both on track and in car development would have been an incredibly powerful combination and yes, I doubt very much that the 2009 car would have been a dog and may well have slowed Red Bulls march. Yes I do believe McLaren and their drivers would have won multiple titles and I think many would agree with me.

 

[Kewee]

I meant in regard to the spygate issue not intra team policies regarding drivers...

I wasn't referring to inter-team politics either Mephistopheles, you'll have to dig a little deeper to understand what I was saying.

 

[RasputinLives]

Kewee please do not rewrite history. Alonso was often described as dangerous by pundits and drivers alike back in those early days and there was especially an uproar with the incident in Brazil as it was pointed out it wasn't the first time Fernando hadn't slowed for safety cars.

Just like Vettel and Hakkenien and Lewis and any other top driver who came in you Alonso had a learning curbe which led to accidents and crashes and your "Vettel had more accidents in one season" stuff is utter rubbish.

As for Mclaren having a good car in 2009 if they'd been nice to Alonso can you tell me how they would have done it? They had 2 drivers with a great relationship in 2008, one of whom won the world championship. So what amazing insight would Fernando have bought in 2009 about the new regs that would have made Mclaren this super team?

 

[Kewee]

Kewee

As for Mclaren having a good car in 2009 if they'd been nice to Alonso can you tell me how they would have done it? They had 2 drivers with a great relationship in 2008, one of whom won the world championship. So what amazing insight would Fernando have bought in 2009 about the new regs that would have made Mclaren this super team?

I could explain how, in fact I have hinted how in my last posting. The reasons I've quoted in the past have been published in many interviews with many of the sports most respected insiders in many articles in the sports leading publications. My guess is if you see and article where Alonso is the featured driver you probably choose not to read it as you clearly dislike him. I can't think of any other reason why you wouldn't understand Alonso's value to a team when they're struggling, which is why I'm not going to continue to explain my beliefs. If you won't read or listen to F1's leading journalist's when they write about Alonso, why would you listen to me. I'm perfectly entitled to rewrite history. Common sense will tell anyone if you look back and suggest if changes had been made results would also have changed, that's rewriting history whether you like it or not and part of the discussion on a forum such as this. If you'd prefer I didn't log on please say so but please realize I am entitled to my opinions just as you are.
Incidentally your distorting what I'm saying. I've never said McLaren should be nice to him as you put it, I stated they should have worked at helping them (both drivers) develop a relationship so they could work together.

 

[Bill Boddy]

History is what happened according to the winning side. This does not always show "the truth" as seen by an uncommitted viewer.

 

[RasputinLives]

Kewee I do not dislike Alonso in the slightest. Please check my posting history. I just don't think he poo's gold like you do.

I notice you did not bother to put any links to these articles. Please do so. I would love to read them. I'm especially looking forward to the part where Fernando knew all about the double diffusor and can design a car as good as Newy.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Here's one he drew earlier...

 

[Kewee]

RasputinLives ….. Many of the articles I'm referring to go back years. They were there for all to read in Autosport and F1. I'm sorry they go back so far I don't have links. Regarding Alonso knowing all about the double diffuser and being able to design a car as good as Newy, I have no idea what your talking about. Surely you wouldn't would take crap like that seriously. I've never referred to Alonso making claims like that. One last point, Just because I believe Alonso is the best of the current era doesn't mean I think he poo's gold. I really is unnecessary to inflate my comments.

 

[RasputinLives]

Kewee so if he didn't know about the double diffusor how does your theory on Alonso becoming part of the Mclaren family = a great golden era for Mclaren stand up? My original point was that even if Mclaren had worked things out with Alonso it would only have lasted until 2009 anyways so suggesting by falling out with him they've lost this magical golden era where they could have been up with the Red Bulls is just untrue.

Two roosters in the hen house are always going to comevto blows and end up leaving at some point so Alonso and Hamilton was never going to work. The way the cards fell is that Lewis stayed and Alonso went. Thats what happened but to try and suggest that if it had been the other way round the team would have been better off has no basis in fact as proven by the fact you have nothing but speculation to base this theory on. Until you can tell me what Alonso could have done that Lewis didn't when the new regs came in and how him being at Mclaren would have changed the way the cars were developed for the new regs that came in for 2009 then I'll continue to state the 'Mclaren would be better off' stuff is nonsense.

As for me inflating your love of Alonso. I think you make it clear you are unable to see any other point of view on him.

 

[Mephistopheles]

The 2009 McLaren was a dog okay not as much of a dog as the 2013 car but a dog nonetheless and | don't care which driver was driving for them in 2008 Hamilton or Alonso the 2009 car would have still been conceived and built as a dog the only reason it managed to win races towards the end of the year was because of the unlimited amount of winglets and aero parts they were allowed stick on it so it went from being a dog to drive to a dog to look at, Alonso could not have changed that...

 

[Kewee]

RasputinLives …. You clearly aren't reading my postings accurately. Exactly the same as you, I stated in one of my earlier postings even if the team had controlled both drivers and they both stayed with the team, eventually things would have blown up between them, so I have know idea why your trying to suggest we have a disagreement on that point. Your quite wrong on another point though. I never suggested if Alonso had stayed and Hamilton left the team would be better off. I've always said if both drivers had stayed and been able to work together the team would have been incredibly strong. Read my postings properly before you have a go at me. This will probably be my last reply to you. Your distorting everything I say so you can make up your own interpretations of my postings. You appear to be looking for a fight and I'm not interested.

 

[Lewywo4]

The implications your making are completely wrong and have nothing to do with what I was referring to in my posting.
McLaren and Ron Dennis were very apologetic to Alonso after Bahrain and stated they got his set-up completely wrong and in their words gave him a dog of a car. Sorry to burst your bubble Lewywo4 but Hamiltons 2nd placing to Aonso's 5th had nothing at all to do with driver superiority. It proved to McLaren they had significant work to do on Alonso's car, especially relating to brakes which led to the Barcelona test. As Hamilton was not having difficulties due to their different driving styles, there was no point in including him in any testing. The testing had nothing to do with trying to give Alonso an advantage in Spain. They did make some gains that helped make the car more suited to Alonso's driving style which he used to full advantage in Monaco. After Bahrain Alonso and Hamilton ran different brakes and set-ups which had nothing to do with favoring one driver over the other, it was simply a case of giving them both a car that suited their styles.

I made no mention of driving superiority on Lewis's part, having anything to do with Hamilton finishing in second, and Alonso fifth. So....you truly believe Kewee, that in order to aid Fernando with his breaking problem, would be to have McLaren exclude Lewis from a scheduled test session, and instead bring in Pedro De la Rosa at Alonso's insistence, to do what?......help him possibly solve his breaking problem......

Niki Lauda was also surprised to learn that Lewis was excluded to test before the race, because Fernando wanted to do the bulk of testing, and in a way that Lauda can only express, said " Did he not? Why not?, and where the is Ron Dennis? I want to talk to him."

I will always believe that Alonso wanted to have Lewis excluded from testing at Spain, in order to gain some sort of advantage during the race. I also feel the breakdown in the relationship between Fernando and McLaren started as a result of the race at Bahrain, which really being soured at Monaco, and really started on a downward spiral after Hamilton's wins at Canada and the U.S. That breakdown could clearly be seen for the world to viewwatch, as a result of Alonso waving a fist to the team in anger, at the pit wall.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH9nMtJmx6Q

 

[sushifiesta]

Keep it civil guys but man do I wish we could have another year like 2007. All this bickering goes to show how good it was to watch and no rivalry between team or driver has really come close since... apart from a few Vettel/Webber moments.

 

[RasputinLives]

Kewee. I have read your posts. See below.

Sadly for McLaren, had they handled things differently they would have achieved many more titles, constructors and drivers, and in doing so would have possibly held Red Bull at bay. I have no doubt at all Hamilton and Alonso would have both achieved multiple titles with McLaren and may well have both stayed with the team.

This is what I am saying is nonsense and you've not been able to convince me any different and now we've got to the point where you said you never said it at all so please don't act like a wounded party who is being unfairly attacked.

Unless of course you'd forgotten you wrote that and don't agree with it at all in which case we're all good and yay.

I'm not looking for a fact I just get very peeved at people twisting facts to fit their own agenda.

 

[Kewee]

Kewee The way the cards fell is that Lewis stayed and Alonso went. Thats what happened but to try and suggest that if it had been the other way round the team would have been better off has no basis in fact as proven by the fact you have nothing but speculation to base this theory on.

Please find my posting where I have said or even suggested this. Once you've finished reading all my postings and realize I've never made a statement even close to this I'll be happy to accept an apology. I'll repeat, I've only ever suggested if Alonso and Hamilton had been able to work together at McLaren they would have been an incredibly strong team. Considering they were the two leading drivers at the time I don't think many would disagree. Critical to my belief they would have been incredibly strong, would have been an ability for them to work together which is why I started my sentence "IF" Alonso and Hamilton had been able to work together. I'm finding it necessary to give you a lesson in sentence structure so you won't distort the meaning of what I'm saying again.

 

[RasputinLives]

Please see above.

I'll happily accept an apology too.

 

[teabagyokel]

Kewee - Here's the video of Brazil 2003, and the Webber & Alonso crashes:

The flags went unnoticed by other divers also in Brazil and at the time of Alonso's massive shunt he and others were also unaware of the safety car. Alonso's accident happened before the start/finish line when he would have become aware of the safety car.

Compare the speed of Raikkonen and Alonso. Fisichella is going slowly as well, but it is far easier to see the discrepancy between Raikkonen and Alonso here. Raikkonen knew there was a Safety Car, and he was ahead of Alonso on the track. If Alonso was unaware of the Safety Car, he simply should not have been.

I notice that you ignore the incident where he got a two-second penalty for petulantly break testing Robert Doornbos at the Hungaroring in Friday practice in 2006.

Vettel has not a moment in his career to equate to those; he's had accidental collisions but nothing quite so dangerous and childish respectively, although it is quite bizarre that you decided to compare the two. But if you want comparisons, those two incidents show him in an unfavourable light to practically all of his peers. There's been clumsiness from all drivers ever, but Alonso is one of a very select few to do something so daft.

And he blackmailed his team because he didn't get what he wanted. Which was apparently equality. Which he had.

 

[Kewee]

RasputinLives … I"ve tried to find the posting your referring to where you say 'please see above'. I'm sorry RasputinLives I can't find anything where I say if Alonso had stayed and Hamilton left the team would have been better off. That is what you alleged I said. Sorry, my last comment, this is going nowhere.

 

[Kewee]

I've seen the film you've posted many times and have commented in the past. I'm also aware of the Doornbos incident. Everybody considered he was an absolute menace including the stewards who gave Alonso the absolute minimum penalty of two seconds.
I haven't got much to say regarding Vettel other than what I've been saying recently, that he's become possibly the finest driver the sports ever seen. That doesn't mean you've only got to go back two years to realize he was involved in more than his share of incidents, often taking himself out as well as someone else. I stand by my comment that Alonso's career is very clean in as much as he hasn't taken other drivers out through contact. The Brazil incident was the result of someones else accident and yes, Alonso was in the wrong, I've never said otherwise. His error certainly wasn't attentional, he could have killed himself.
As far as the 'alleged by the tabloids' blackmailing incident, everyone knows my views on this and I'm not going there again, there is no point and nothing to be gained by anyone.