Did the rule changes work?

HammydiRestarules I presume that you approve of short lasting tyres since all the overtakes that you quote were as the result of tyres which were worn out.:)

The chances of overtaking have lessened with the advent of dirty air caused mainly by wings which have become more and more complex. Imo hard tyres and single element wings of a restricted surface area would improve matteras greatly.
 
If the question is the 2008-09 rule changes the answer is yes. If the question is whether removing McLaren's competitive advantage, stymieing creativity and rejecting one of the smartest ideas of the century because some teams could not use it sensibly....

It does raise the question of whether innovation is being stifled in modern F1 as anything developed by a top team gets shouted as illegal by other teams after failing to copy it and then said development is made illegal for the next year, in the cost cutting age, it's extremely expensive and wasteful
 
HammydiRestarules I presume that you approve of short lasting tyres since all the overtakes that you quote were as the result of tyres which were worn out.:)

The chances of overtaking have lessened with the advent of dirty air caused mainly by wings which have become more and more complex. Imo hard tyres and single element wings of a restricted surface area would improve matteras greatly.
Funnily enough this reminded me of a Gordon Murray article in Motorsport (2012 I think) where he came to the same conclusions... along with some nice drawings too.
 
HammydiRestarules I presume that you approve of short lasting tyres since all the overtakes that you quote were as the result of tyres which were worn out.:)

The chances of overtaking have lessened with the advent of dirty air caused mainly by wings which have become more and more complex. Imo hard tyres and single element wings of a restricted surface area would improve matteras greatly.
Funnily enough this reminded me of a Gordon Murray article in Motorsport (2012 I think) where he came to the same conclusions... along with some nice drawings too.
The first place I ever saw the concept remarked to was a Csaba Csere editorial in Car&Driver, March, 2005:
Want to Fix F1? Forget V-8s. Ban Downforce!

Eight seasons on, the idea still hasn't got much traction with the FIA or FOM, which is to be expected. The powers that be continue to demonstrate their principle interest is whether Bernie can maintain the mortgage payments on his two indigent/socialite [pick one] daughters' $100M Beverly Hills mansions rather than the quality of the racing.
 
He mentioned lessening or removing wings all together. I thought this was a thought with the reg changes in '09. The front wings in '09 were very basic, but now they are more complicated than ever. The Red Bull wing has 7 planes (sp?)!

Returning to single element front wings would help a lot I believe.
 
They dont have a massive advantage over GP2 at the moment, and I can see that dropping next season too.

My vote would be to stop Aero from being too effective, possibly through the use of a Spec aero kit, which could be designed to be follow friendly. Controlled engines to keep the costs down, but everything else could be fair game.

Traction control? of course. ABS? Why not. Mass Dampers? bring it on.
 
They dont have a massive advantage over GP2 at the moment, and I can see that dropping next season too.

My vote would be to stop Aero from being too effective, possibly through the use of a Spec aero kit, which could be designed to be follow friendly. Controlled engines to keep the costs down, but everything else could be fair game.

Traction control? of course. ABS? Why not. Mass Dampers? bring it on.
Now that would be very interesting, would also eliminate Red-Bulls aero advantage for good and bring the bottom teams into the action.

Although would there be much of the car left to develop all year if engine and Aero are frozen?
 
Each team has quite a large contingent focussing on vehicle dynamics. Gearbox, clutch, Differential, suspension, steering, brakes.

If the regs were relaxed in these areas, I am sure the teams could spunk as much money as they are now on them.
 
If a measure of turbulence and how it affects a car behind could be developed and quantified, maybe this could be a useful regulation to implement? Give teams more freedom with aero so long as the disruption to other cars is limited.
 
While there are rules some team or designer will try to exploit them the best they can. Better to relax them and as long as a car is safe then there should be no limit on developments
 
I think the 2009 regulation changes has helped increased the number of overtakes, aided a bit by DRS (which should just be gotten rid of- either it doesn't work or it works too much and people breeze past each other with no skill involved). I can remember the cars not looking great in 2009 but, since then, I have found them to be very aestetically pleasing, with the exception of nearly every car on the 2012 grid. Since 2009 some of the rule changes have been rather dim. The removal of the off-throttle blown diffuser in 2011 I can understand, the cars sounded horrible and the banning brought the cars so much closer together. But the removal of the F-Duct was something I couldn't understand, and the double DRS system from the Mercedes last year. It seems whenever a great innovation comes in to make these cars faster (which they should be doing) it gets banned. One thing about the 2009 regs that is, in my view undisputable, is the return of slick tyres- F1 belongs on slicks.
 
If you got rid of all the downforce though, surely F1 cars would no longer be the fastest in the world?
Therein lies the rub. Unless they can come up with a source of downforce that is less degraded by turbulence (such as ground effects), this invariably will mean slower races. So unless the same sorts of rules changes trickle down through GP2 and GP3, it will make them appear superior to F1.

But the truth is, the vast majority of fans only ever watch an F1 race on the telly. When you are watching on the telly, car speed is nigh on impossible to judge. But what is blatantly obvious is when a car powerslides around corners, or four-wheel drifts out of the exit of a turn leaving four black stripes on the tarmac behind it.

When you see either end of one of the current crop of cars come unstuck, it most likely means either its tyres are ronnied or its driver has botched the maneouver. In the olden days, cars sliding about simply was the sign of a driver putting it on the ragged edge. It was the fastest way of doing business. The best could do it lap after lap, never straying from the racing line. Sometimes even while wheel-to-wheel.

So unless the commentators elect to belabour the point, most fans will never notice the loss in speed. But they will notice the increase in drama.


But I think Csaba is being a bit hyperbolic. He knew when he wrote this that a complete elimination of aero not only isn't practical, it isn't even possible. Otherwise the cars all would look like they'd been made from Lego. I think he was using an extreme viewpoint to illustrate that the problem is not unsolvable.

1279474911m_SPLASH.jpg


Except this one would be illegal, of course, because it still has wings.
 
Everything that moves or doesn't move through the atmosphere has aerodynamic properties from a house brick dropped off a skyscraper to the ultimate jet fighter even a skyscraper has aerodynamic properties as does a tree, it is impossible to get rid of just as it is impossible to eliminate gravity or energy.

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And that includes that lego car
 
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To be honest, I think you're all wrong.

Look at where we used to get the most exciting races (and the most overtakes) - exactly, when it rained.

What was different when it rained? There was still the same amount of downforce- suggesting that aero isn't entirely responsible for lack of excitement. What there was though, was a lack of mechanical grip, or more particularly a lack of predictable mechanical grip, tallied with an increase in braking distances.

The only rule changes that were ever needed was a return to tyres which aren't entirely predictable, and brakes that require longer distances than the current carbon fibre beasts- then you would get good racing, without the need to slow the cars down markedly!

Oh, and let's get rid of computer aided gearboxes whilst we're at it!
 
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