Current AlphaTauri (formerly Toro Rosso)

Toro Rosso

FIA Entry: Scuderia Toro Rosso
Car 18: Sebastien Buemi
Car 19: Jamie Alguersuari
Engine: Ferrari V8
Team Principa:l Franz Tost
Technical Director: Giorgi Ascanelli
Race Engineer Car 18: Riccardo Adami
Race Engineer Car 19:Andrea Landi

Stats as of end 2010

First Entered 2006
Races Entered 90
Race Wins 1
Pole Positions 1
Fastest Laps 0
Driver World Championships 0
Constructor World Championships 0

The Beginning

Toro Rosso took over the Minardi entry in F1 in 2006. Minardi took part in 345 Grands Prix between 1985 and 2005 without a single win, podium, pole or fastest lap but were the starting point for double World Champion Fernando Alonso and race winners Mark Webber and Jarno Trulli.

Red Bull Takeover

At the end of 2005 current Minardi team owner Paul Stoddart sold the team to Red Bull to allow them to create a “Junior” team to bring new driver talent into F1. The Red Bull take over resulted in a change of name to Squadra Toro Rosso and then Scuderia Toro Rosso amidst much complaint from Minardi fans. For their first season in 2006 drivers Vitantonio Liuzzi and Scott Speed used the STR1 chassis, which was essentially the Red Bull RB1 car. These were fitted with rev and air flow limited 3.0 litre Ford engines to allow Toro Rosso to compete in the new 2.4 litre formula in place for 2006.

Liuzzi scored a point for the team at the US Grand Prix, a race where only 9 cars finished. The development of the new engines by the other teams put Toro Rosso in a very uncompetitive position and they tended to qualify toward the back of the grid and run in those positions in the race.

Ferrari Customer

With the senior Red Bull team moving to Renault power for 2007 Toro Rosso picked up their Ferrari engine contract. Speed and Liuzzi continued as drivers. The STR2 proved unreliable and both drivers made mistakes during the year leading to speculation that they would be replaced. Speed eventually lost his seat to BMW test driver, and Red Bull junior driver, Sebastien Vettel. In changeable weather at the Chinese Grand Prix Vettel bought his car home 4th with Liuzzi 6th.

For 2008 Vettel was joined by reigning Champ Car Series winner Sebastien Bourdais as Liuzzi moved to Force India. Bourdais finished 7th at the opening race of the season in Australia and Vettel then took 4th in Monaco. As the season progressed Vettel in particular was a regular points scorer and in wet qualifying at the Italian Grand Prix put his car on pole. The rain continued into race day and Vettel went on to win the race becoming the youngest ever Grand Prix victor. More points finishes for Vettel in the final races of the season put Toro Rosso 6th in the Constructors Championship and earned him a place in the Red Bull senior team for 2009.

Sebastien Buemi joined Bourdais for 2009 and after the highs of 2008 the team came back down to earth in ’09. Bourdais was dismissed mid season due to poor race results and Jaime Alguersuari took his seat for the remainder of the season. The drivers managed a few low points finished but the team dropped to 10th in the Constructors Championship.

Buemi and Alguersuari continued for 2010 and again picked up some minor points placing’s, helped by the revised points scoring system for the season. The team finished 9th in the Constructors Championship but were the lowest placed of the established F1 teams.

2011

Toro Rosso continue with the same driver line up in 2011 and, with the STR6 car and Ferrari engines, hope they can move further up the grid.

 

[teabagyokel]

Fair play to DC, he saw a lucrative media career and took it.

 

[FB]

And Red Bull still pay him a fair old wedge to be an "ambassador" for them. Witness the fact that he was at the Home Run in MK arsing about in a Red Bull NASCAR.

 

[Viscount]

Don't forget he's Mercedes-AMG ambassador also, he's done pretty well for himself!

 

[Slyboogy]

Speechless...and disgusted...

Considering that teams turn a blind eye on Toro Rosso drivers how are they supposed to find another team? Another thing, what happens if Ricciardo and Vergne are like Buemi and Alguersuari, consistently improving? A driver needs to grow especially when there's no testing...absolute bolloks, why have several drivers in the same age group???

Ricciardo is the same age as Buemi, Alguersuari is younger than them all.

Toro Rosso might not be your average team as they are lead by Red Bull, I am not surprised why Luca's been pushing for 3 car teams when Red Bull effectively have 2 of their own, maybe that's why some also believe they have been spending more than the RRA agreement.

I like Toro Rosso, or did, but why am I criticising them? Because they are letting two good drivers go, and not in the right circumstances since they have nowhere to go as all seats are tied up bar 2, well in the current circumstances there's 97% chance of them not getting a seat happening with only 2 seats left and with 3 pay drivers on the loose ( Petrov, Senna and Sutil - kind of a pay driver, brings money in like Perez) plus a few others.

Ever since Vettel, the team is expecting big things from their drivers, difference is when Vettel was around, he had a nifty car where only 2 teams dominated, but all 4 drivers kept slipping over each other, however ever since these two drivers have been there they have been giving one of the worst cars on the grid (2009 and 2010) where theres been more competition at the front compared to Vettels time, I read an article where Alguersuari says that Marko gave him a target for next season which was "to win a race".

What's even more sad, is that Buemi was doing simulator runs for Toro Rosso when this was announced and Alguersuari was doing PR talks for them.

Where are these two drivers going to go? At the age of 23 and 21 their careers are effectively ruined.

Toro Rosso may be classified as a seperate team, but Red Bull still runs them and this really should be questioned by all the teams. Not surprised Luca is asking for 3 car teams, this could be a counter argument.

I think Toro Rosso grew a lot with the Buemi/Alguersuari line up, their car certainly improved every year as did the drivers performance, now it looks as if they are back to square one. I like Toro Rosso but this decision stinks from most aspects, and i have listed many, I certainly don't like Red Bull anymore...

How can Red Bull keep a under performing Webber but chuck out two drivers who have had their best seasons to date?

I am not only speaking on the behalf of Buemi but for Alguersuari aswell, I have looked this through a neutrals eyes and even then it's still pretty sad how this situation is.

As a Moose/Buemi fan, I am sad, and have been feeling a bit empty inside knowing that I won't see him on the grid after big noises that both drivers would get kept. He's been unlucky the past two seasons he gets taken out of the points through no fault of his own in both 2010 and 2011, his bad luck seems to continue.

I am feeling the same way Whippey felt about Heidfeld getting replaced if not worse.

Sorry for the rant...but am pissed!

 

[RasputinLives]

Sorry to have to post this Sly

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96917

Marko says Ex STR boys were not 'winners'

 

[Slyboogy]

That's his opinion.

This guy is surely bad PR for Red Bull and should keep his mouth shut, he was the one stirring problems in Turkey and Silverstone in 2010 too.

He expects a driver to win in a Toro Rosso, but how can any midfielder win a race or even get a podium, when the 4th best team can't?

Times have changed from 2008 Marko where the top 8 where ever so inconsistent where golden boy excelled in a solid midfield car.

Another thing, doesn't give his 3rd driver much confidence does it?

 

[RasputinLives]

He expects a driver to win in a Toro Rosso, but how can any midfielder win a race or even get a podium, when the 4th best team can't?

To be fair to Marko he says prove that their a winner he doesn't actual say he expected them to win in a Toro Rosso but I see your point on him and his big gob and it does seem to have come at the wrong time after they've just announced they're keeping on Buemi

 

[Slyboogy]

To be fair to Marko he says prove that their a winner he doesn't actual say he expected them to win in a Toro Rosso but I see your point on him and his big gob and it does seem to have come at the wrong time after they've just announced they're keeping on Buemi

There was an article where Alguersuari stated that Marko had given them a task and that was "to win a race".

The way Ricciardo and Vergne are being hyped up, and if they are in a similar position to Alguersuari and Buemi after a few seasons, I wonder if Marko will be lenient to then or not.

 

[RasputinLives]

I think the answer is probably no Sly. The only driver so far that has risen through the Toro Rosso ranks is Vettel and lets face it thats hardly surprising with the skill he's shown and the fact he crushed Sebastian Bourdais who was a driver with a massive reputation (4 times Champ Car series Champ, former F3000 champion and twice runner up at Le Mans).

Ricciardo I think has been ear-marked as the next big thing for a while but their begining to have doubts about him hence why they took a punt on JEV who had been beating him in the lower formula. Personally I think Ricciardo has this season to impress and if he doesn't they'll kick him to the curb. I think they're wondering if JEV will show Vettel like skills and if he does then he'll be in the Red Bull. If he doesn't I think they'll give him another season but then he'll be gone too. Nature of the team.

As for your friend the Moose - personally I think Red Bull decided a while back that while they didn't rate him enough to ever give him the number one slot at thier head team that they value his imput and think he has enough speed and the right loyalty temprement to be a great number 2 - a Berger/Barrichello/Webber type. I don't think they want anyone else to have him and I honestly think if Webber had retired this year or last they'd have brought him in. I think he could still get the drive if Vergne and Ricciardo really blow it.

I think Red Bull just don't want to miss out on the next big thing so are trying to see if they've got it - I think they've decided that Buemi isn't but would be a great number 2. Hence the situation there in now.

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[teabagyokel]

The only driver so far that has risen through the Toro Rosso ranks is Vettel and lets face it thats hardly surprising with the skill he's shown and the fact he crushed Sebastian Bourdais who was a driver with a massive reputation (4 times Champ Car series Champ, former F3000 champion and twice runner up at Le Mans).

I hope they're not looking for someone as good as Vettel. It is possible no-one will find anyone as good as Vettel for five to ten years.

 

[RasputinLives]

I hope they're not looking for someone as good as Vettel. It is possible no-one will find anyone as good as Vettel for five to ten years.

Well I guess thats my point on the quick dropping - they already have a Vettel and as long as they do they aren't going to be keeping anyone unless they are as good as him!

 

[Slyboogy]

They could find the next Vettel if they build a decent enough car for the drivers, since 2009 their car has been the worst of the midfielders. Only in the second half of 2011 did they start getting some results, even then, the car was falling apart for one driver.

 

[RasputinLives]

Sly mate I know you're annoyed at them for dropping the Moose but don't pick at things that aren't there.

2009 = 8 points and 10th place - worst team and at the back of the grid by 6 pointd with only 6 points finishes

2010 = 13 points and 9th place - bottom of the midfielders by 4 points with 6 point finishes

2011 = 41 points and 8th place - moved in front of Williams and lets face it should have finished in front of Sauber with 14 points finishes - all in a season where apparently due to the consistancy of the front 6 it was harder to score points

Compared to how the team did as Minardi (and lets remember its the same team with a bit more investment) they really have turned it round.

 

[Galahad]

Even if you know you're looking for a diamond in a dung heap and your chances are minimal, it has still been well worth the effort if you do find one.

And Red Bull are getting through far more dung than anybody else!

 

[Slyboogy]

Sly mate I know you're annoyed at them for dropping the Moose but don't pick at things that aren't there.

2009 = 8 points and 10th place - worst team and at the back of the grid by 6 pointd with only 6 points finishes

2010 = 13 points and 9th place - bottom of the midfielders by 4 points with 6 point finishes

2011 = 41 points and 8th place - moved in front of Williams and lets face it should have finished in front of Sauber with 14 points finishes - all in a season where apparently due to the consistancy of the front 6 it was harder to score points

Compared to how the team did as Minardi (and lets remember its the same team with a bit more investment) they really have turned it round.

What I said is strictly true, apart from 2011, which I put up a fair analysis.

2009, finished last in the constructors, 2010 last of the midfielders, 2011, improvement in the second half of the season led them to more points.

Gradual improvement in 2011 from 2010, strictly speaking, the two drivers have only had a decent car for 5 races and that was from Suzuka onwards.

I'm not annoyed over the Moose, was annoyed 2-3 weeks or so ago.

What I am really annoyed about, is the drivers not given too much of a chance as they are being compared with Vettel, yes Vettel had star quality, but you can't compare every Toro Rosso driver with Vettel. Vettel came in a different era, rules more relaxed, lots of testing, and a much better car than - what I shall presume - any other Toro Rosso driver will enjoy.

Not only that, there's Sutil aswell without a drive, not a fan of his by all means, but he seems to have done what was needed of him in his two seasons as a lead driver for Force India.

Let's not compare them to Minardi, there are not in Minardi's league.

"Same team with a bit more investment" - there's your answer on why they are doing better than Minardi, might be the same team, but they have "more investment." and are not struggling to get sponsors, nor do they have a lack of funding like the old Minardi team.

 

[RasputinLives]

Did you know by Brazil 2011 that Buemi was actually 5th equal in the list of drivers who stayed the longest amount of time with the same team?

The only people that had been with their teams longer than Buemi were Massa, Hamilton, Sutil, Webber and equal with him was Vettel

In fact Alguersauri and Buemi were the longest serving Toro Rosso drivers:

Liuzzi: 2 seasons
Speed: 1 and a half seasons
Vettel: 1 and a half seasons
Bourdais: 1 and a half seasons
Buemi: 3 seasons
Alguersauri: 2 and a half season

What I said is strictly true, apart from 2011, which I put up a fair analysis.

2009, finished last in the constructors, 2010 last of the midfielders, 2011, improvement in the second half of the season led them to more points.

Gradual improvement in 2011 from 2010, strictly speaking, the two drivers have only had a decent car for 5 races and that was from Suzuka onwards.

I'm not annoyed over the Moose, was annoyed 2-3 weeks or so ago.

What I am really annoyed about, is the drivers not given too much of a chance as they are being compared with Vettel, yes Vettel had star quality, but you can't compare every Toro Rosso driver with Vettel. Vettel came in a different era, rules more relaxed, lots of testing, and a much better car than - what I shall presume - any other Toro Rosso driver will enjoy.

Not only that, there's Sutil aswell without a drive, not a fan of his by all means, but he seems to have done what was needed of him in his two seasons as a lead driver for Force India.

Let's not compare them to Minardi, there are not in Minardi's league.

"Same team with a bit more investment" - there's your answer on why they are doing better than Minardi, might be the same team, but they have "more investment." and are not struggling to get sponsors, nor do they have a lack of funding like the old Minardi team.

As for Toro Rosso having more sponsors and investment than Minardi - I completely agree - hence why they're getting a lot better but you can't create a winning team overnight - especially if you're someones junior team. I don't think the car being poor is the reason the drivers haven't come up to scratch.

 

[Slyboogy]

Did you know by Brazil 2011 that Buemi was actually 5th equal in the list of drivers who stayed the longest amount of time with the same team?

The only people that had been with their teams longer than Buemi were Massa, Hamilton, Sutil, Webber and equal with him was Vettel

In fact Alguersauri and Buemi were the longest serving Toro Rosso drivers:

As for Toro Rosso having more sponsors and investment than Minardi - I completely agree - hence why they're getting a lot better but you can't create a winning team overnight - especially if you're someones junior team. I don't think the car being poor is the reason the drivers haven't come up to scratch.

Don't know about the first part of your post as it seems irrelevant, but if they kept those 2 on for a while, it must show that they had talent.

As for your second point. Toro Rosso are never going to be a winning team and are going to lagging in the bottom half of the midfield under the Red Bull tag, Red Bull have learnt from 2008, just how Honda learnt their lesson in 2007 with Super Aguri, they are never going to let the second team shine.

 

[RasputinLives]

Don't know about the first part of your post as it seems irrelevant, but if they kept those 2 on for a while, it must show that they had talent.

As for your second point. Toro Rosso are never going to be a winning team and are going to lagging in the bottom half of the midfield under the Red Bull tag, Red Bull have learnt from 2008, just how Honda learnt their lesson in 2007 with Super Aguri, they are never going to let the second team shine.

You were saying drivers weren't given a chance and I was saying that Buemi and Alguersauri were given longer than most that was why it was relevent - and Sutil had 4 seasons but his is a different case.

As for your second bit - thats exactly what I was saying. Its still a competitve midfield car though and you can't blame the drivers 'not producing' on the car as you suggested.

 

[Slyboogy]

You were saying drivers weren't given a chance and I was saying that Buemi and Alguersauri were given longer than most that was why it was relevent - and Sutil had 4 seasons but his is a different case.

What I am really annoyed about, is the drivers not given too much of a chance as they are being compared with Vettel, yes Vettel had star quality, but you can't compare every Toro Rosso driver with Vettel. Vettel came in a different era, rules more relaxed, lots of testing, and a much better car than - what I shall presume - any other Toro Rosso driver will enjoy.

That was my point...

 

[RasputinLives]

Red Bull can afford to compare every driver with Vettel - the whole point of the Toro Rosso team is to find them a driver better than they already have - which is Vettel

I take your point on the testing front but Buemi had twice as long in the car as Vettel did and even with the points system changing hasn't got anywhere near the total Vettel did in 2008.