Grand Prix 2021 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The Autodromo Nazionale Di Monza is the third oldest purpose built race track in the world. Constructed in 1922 after Brooklands and Indianapolis, its motorsport history is a long and, in many cases, tragic one.

Like Brooklands and Indianapolis, the circuit was famed for its high banked oval circuit which, when combined with the outer road circuit made up 10km of bumpy, fast, and often deadly racetrack.

The 1961 Italian Grand Prix should have been a joyous occasion for the Tifosi, the band of Ferrari fans who create a sea of scarlet around the track at every Italian GP, with either the American Phil Hill or the German Wolfgang (Taffy) Von Trips set to take the world drivers title. Neither Ferrari driver could be caught by anyone else and the title battle would be decided between them.

Going into the race Trips had 33 points with Hill behind on 29. This was a time when the scoring system was made more complicated by only the best 5 of 8 results counting. While Monza was the 7th of 8 races no other driver could catch Hill or Von Trips in the standings.

It’s incredible to think that 37 cars attempted to qualify for the race with 32 managing to come in under the 115% percent cut off time from the second fastest driver. This rule had been in place for the whole of the 1961 season, and there you all were thinking the 107 percent qualifying rule was a new thing? Von Trips qualified fastest ahead of the Ferrari’s of Rodriguez, Ginther and Hill. All 4 cars were separated by 0.9 of a second which in those days was incredibly close. Graham Hill qualified in fifth a distant 2.4 seconds from pole.

When the flag dropped on race day the four Ferrari’s raced off the line however, Jim Clark, his Lotus using shorter gearing than the Ferrari’s squeezed his way through and briefly held second. Von Trips didn’t get away well and as the cars completed lap one, Hill lead from Ginther, Rodriguez and Clark with Brabham, Von Trips and Baghetti chasing hard behind.

Part way through the second lap, Von Trips had managed to force his way through and ahead of Clark and was now running in 4th. On the approach to the Parabolica corner Clark made his move to try and retake the position. In Clark’s words:

“I was preparing to overtake him and my front wheels were almost level with his back wheel as he started to brake. Suddenly he began to pull over towards me and he ran right Into the side of me. I honestly don’t think Taffy realised I was there. I am sure that, when he passed me earlier, he had decided that his was the faster car and I would be left behind”

The contact between the cars forced Trips Ferrari left and towards the packed crowd. As the car span out of control it slid up the high banking beside the track, suddenly digging into the ground it flipped and slammed through the chain link fence and through the crowd. Flipping over again, the car the car slithered back onto the track. Von Trips had been thrown out of the car and, along with at least 11 other spectators, died at the scene. Several more would die of their injuries over the next few days and, while the official figure was listed as 15 spectators killed, the precise number is not known.

Remarkably, while some of the drivers became aware that an accident had occurred, most at the circuit, including the commentators were unaware of the true scale of the accident. The race was not stopped, and it has since been claimed that this was due to the race organisers not wishing to flood the area with spectators attempting to leave the track prohibiting the emergency services from accessing and helping the injured. Whether this is the case it’s hard to say.

Hill raced on, now aware that his teammate was out, he swapped the lead with Richie Ginther on a number of occasions over the first half of the race and then, one by one, the Ferrari’s pulled out. Baghetti, Rodriguez and then Ginther all pulled out with mechanical trouble until Hill lead alone to cross the line and take the world title.

After the race, Jack Brabham, who had witnessed the crash confirmed that neither Clark or Von Trips had been racing each other dangerously and Brabham defended Clark in the fullest saying that you could be quite confident that he wasn’t going to do something stupid when you raced hard against him.

Hill climbed out of the car to discover the tragic news and, despite this being the pinnacle of his motor racing career there would be no celebration. Ferrari withdrew from the final GP of the season and, while Phil Hill would remain with the team for the following season he would never win for the Scuderia again and he slowly drifted away from F1 and into a career in sports cars.

Incredibly, this would not be the last time that Monza would see tragedy decide the title. In 1970, world championship leader Jochen Rindt lost his life when he lost control of his Lotus 72. Team Lotus were attempting to run their cars without the normal front and rear wings. Rindt’s teammate, John Miles had already reported handling issues with the car in this format, frightening himself and telling Colin Chapman that the car wouldn’t run straight. Rindt however was happy with the set up and, on Saturday ran the car with longer gear ratios to increase the top speed even further. As with Von Trips, on the approach to the Parabolica corner the car suddenly snapped right, then left and right again before finally snapping to the left and through the poorly fitted guard rail. Rindt died on the way to hospital but by this point had already amassed enough world championship points that by the end of the season he would be crowned F1’s first and thankfully so far only, posthumous world champion.

Fate wasn’t done with Monza though and it had one last cruel hand to play in deciding a world championship. The circumstances surrounding the 1978 Italian Grand Prix are so tragically similar to the 1961 race it is remarkable.

Going into the 1978 race, Lotus and their “ground effect” Type 78 and Type 79 cars had dominated the season in the same way that Ferrari had with their 1961 car. Again, as in 1961, only two drivers could win the world title. The American Mario Andretti and his teammate Ronnie Peterson. On this occasion, Gianni Restelli, the man responsible for starting the race, did so before the cars at the back of the grid had come to a complete stop after their warm up lap. As a result, the cars towards the rear of the grid were up among the front runs almost instantly. Approaching the first corner, absolute carnage ensued. James Hunt, avoiding the fast starting Ricardo Patrese collided with Peterson sending his Lotus spinning into the barriers. Seven other drivers were involved in the collision, all coming to a halt. Peterson’s car caught fire on impact and he was trapped in the car. Vittorio Brambilla had been hit on the head by a detached wheel and knocked unconscious. Hunt, Clay Regazzoni and Patrick Depailler dragged Peterson from the wreckage before he could receive anything more than minor burns however, he’d suffered multiple fractures to his legs. Sadly, Peterson was using the older type 78 which was his spare care because his normal race car, the newer type 79 had suffered problems over the weekend and Lotus didn’t have enough type 79 chassis at that point. The 79 had a different front end and it’s possible that had Peterson gone off in that car his injuries may well have not been as severe. It took over 20 minutes for help to arrive and Brambilla and Peterson were transferred to hospital. Peterson, who had been fully conscious throughout looked as if he would soon make a full recovery. It was widely believed at the time that he’d a McLaren contract waiting to be signed for 1979. Unfortunately, he died in hospital the following morning when a fat embolism in his blood stream caused his organs to fail.

Andretti came home 6th taking his only world title. Like Phil Hill before him, he would never win another formula one race and, while remaining in F1 for a few more years would see his results slide backwards with each passing season until he eventually retired from F1 and continued his hugely successful career in Indy Racing.

As a final, and slightly more uplifting coda to his story, in what had been a tragic year for Ferrari in 1982 with the death of Gilles Villeneuve and the near fatal accident to Didier Pironi, Mario was drafted into the team to join Patrick Tambay to enable Ferrari to run two cars at their home GP. Mario gave the Tifosi the lift they needed by setting the final pole position of his career and bringing his car home in 3rd behind his teammate Tambay in second and between them, scoring enough points to secure Ferrari their first constructors title since 1979.

We have a lot to be thankful for when we look at how safe modern formula one has become but we should never be complacent. Monza is not a circuit to be taken lightly.

Lets hope we have a great race.
 
I bet those have felt like 9 very long years for the McLaren team.
Yeah. What makes the result more pleasing was that it was a genuine win. Yes, Verstappen and Hamilton would have added a load more pressure had they remained running but Danny Ric got ahead at the start and held the lead and Lando pulled off a true balls out overtake on LeClerc.

Obviously the Merc engines like high power circuits and the low downforce configuration suits the McLaren so they had the best of all worlds this weekend.

It's really important for them to build on this now.
 
For me the most startling part of the entire incident is that Max Verstappen got out of his car and stormed off. He neither knew, or seemed to care, if Hamilton was OK. In all the years that I have been watching F1, I have never seen a driver care so little for a fellow driver.
I have never been keen on Max Verstappen , I now really dislike him.
I think he should receive a lifetime ban
 
I am trying to think in the event Verstappen had carried on ..would have been disqualified? Or given a penalty of any sort -?

I am trying to think the highest he may start is 4th next race the 3 cars in front of him would be Hamilton, Bottas and he hopes his teammate so he can still win the next race...

For things to be awkward is for Ferraris and McLarens to be ahead of him and that engine penalty is going to have to wait

As pointed out his attitude really stank and a few drivers may sense a moment to test his fragility which was apparent this race
 
Max is still a bit too entitled and it’s beginning to be too much for my liking.

His car drove over the top of LH and not at least checking he was ok (since both were out) is at least a bit on the unsportsmanlike side…… if not a genuine disregard for another drivers safety…. Pretty sure that will not go unnoticed by other drivers….
Agree. His behavior is despicable. But he has always been that way.
 
that was horrible incident. i apologise to F1. i feel a huge idiot for ever being critical of the halo. because as time has progressed the last 2 years. it makes me & anyone against it. look a stupid fool

i dont think there was enough blame on either side to penalise enough. as it yes it was optimistic from max but he was enough alongside to have given more room. you could say that Hamilton did to Verstappen on lap 27. what verstappen did to Lewis on lap 1.

because i was in a mood for the 1st 10 laps with Hamilton brilliant start on the hard tyre & if you had told Lewis he would be behind max going into turn 4. more than settled for that & yet he chucked it away. i always praised his calmness in 2017 battle with Vettel. he swapped places & let red mist cloud his judgement. same on lap 27. verstappen thought it was the final lap of race instead of thinking im on the hard & Hamilton has to do 27 laps on medium that struggled past 20

i wonder if in 2022 these cars will get rid of the desperation these drivers have of its now or never. when dirty air is cut from 50% to 5%
 
Max is still a bit too entitled and it’s beginning to be too much for my liking.

His car drove over the top of LH and not at least checking he was ok (since both were out) is at least a bit on the unsportsmanlike side…… if not a genuine disregard for another drivers safety…. Pretty sure that will not go unnoticed by other drivers….
Agree. His behavior is despicable. But he has always been that way.

im probably in the minority but I think it was they didnt to do diffuse anything like we saw with russell & Bottas because we are talking about 2 drivers hype full of adrenaline. i know from my personal experience having a walk does no end of help to calm the situation.

you cant expect people, react like a normal person in those scenarios
 
what a sporting weekend. over the moon for ricciardo, 1 of sports good guys it will be classed as a "shock" but not i dont think it really can be as we've been waiting all year until spa probally when we never got a chance to see what he could do from 4th. waiting for the real daniel to come back. finally he is back. all my talk about late 90s. it felt like it huge iconic rivalry unfolding while the 2 McLarens are leading chased by 2 ferraris

just when you think it cant. Bottas gets even more confusing. if anything Toto Wolff might be more upset with bottas than he was the last few weeks. he been poor since November 2019. as that was last time he was faster than Hamilton all weekend. i wouldve given him driver of the day. & i dont think i have ever said that. everyone watching it, mustve similar to what i was thinking, where was this the last 2 years. if he drove like this more often. he wouldnt be at alfa romeo in 2022. as 2020 italian gp went from 2nd to 6th & was terrified to overtake. 2021 he was overtaking left right centre. 19th to 3rd. this was bottas of 1st half of 2017 & 1st 4 races of 2020

also on the Sprint race. it could work with new cars maybe in a BTCC way. you could have a stand alone race where after qualifying you pick the balls out of the hat 8/10 - 20 to see who gets reversed. but seems sprint was always doomed because everything is worked for 90min race & there are no shortcuts if you have 10 min half in 11v11 football it would be dreadful. a le mans 3 hour would be dreadful. if you want to watch F1 unfortunately you have to put the hours in.
 
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Verstappen's attitude and driving style is a result of him being supported in his early F1 days by Horner and the FIA not slapping him down instead of giving him the benefit of doubt.
Horner ;- it's a racing incident = Max's fault
Horner;- it was the other drivers fault = a racing incident
Horner;- the other driver should be disqualified = they are both at fault
Horner;- the other driver should be banned for at least one race = the other driver made an error that removed Max's chances of winning.
Verstappen drives in a manner that unless the other driver moves out of his way there will be a collision, the moving out of the way will depend on what the other driver will lose and whether he considers what the stewards decision will be in regards to blame.
In yesterdays case it was his fault as the car wouldn't have flown had he been in front, with a rear to rear wheel or any in line wheel to wheel contact collision, not a wheel bang, the car in the lead will always lift the wheel of the overtaking car, this elevation is further aided by the overtaking car powered rear wheel climbing over the lead cars wheel, with Max with his foot down there is no other result.
Irrespective of Hamilton's actions there would have been a collision before the end of the corner if Hamilton stayed on the track.
Favouritism in Red Bull has caused them to lose very good team mates who would occasionally win or keep the favoured one honest, they just walk away and leave the team scrabbling for a decent replacement.
 
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Ayrton Senna used to work on the "get out of my way or I'll crash in to you" principle and he's revered as demigod. I suspect Max is trying to create the same aura to frighten the other drivers out of the way. Not sure Lewis is intimidated by his manner though.
 
The difference between Senna and Verstappen is that Senna relied on God to protect him and Verstappen relies on the cars safety factors to protect him, the future will see if the cars safety factors are better than Senna's God.:whistle:
 
I've just been thinking about the Perez situation.

Would it be a stretch to say that Perez was not told to give the place back in order to do what he could to prevent Bottas from gaining any points? If Bottas had got past Perez, he would have had a chance to fight the McLarens for the win, and got Mercedes 25 points. Red Bull would have known he would get a penalty, but might have taken the chance to prevent Merc getting an additional 10 points from where they finished.

Should I get my tinfoil hat out of mothballs?
 
The Pits i had a similar thought they are fighting for a constructors championship as well. taking the penalty was damage limitation because bottas couldve won the race 40pt lead instead of a 18pt lead currently
 
Well Mercedes know Red Bull have created this themselves Mercedes: Red Bull reaction shows it knows Verstappen was to blame

Horner was on the back foot and is taking the flak for Verstappen who still thinks he is a God.

The penalty handed has got me thinking.."Did Verstappen keep his foot on the gas when his car went over Hamilton ?"

Was telemetry data used to look to hand out the penalty? Everyone's talking about thank goodness for the halo saving Hamilton except Verstappen 🤔 It makes me think he would consider hospitalising Hamilton to win the world title at all costs...
 
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