Grand Prix 2020 Turkish Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

On moves the F1 circus this time revisiting what is a lovely circuit in the country of Turkey. The Turkish Grand Prix circuit is something of a masterpiece on 3 fronts:

1 - it's produced such good races and has such a nice layout that no of the Clarkson purists are saying "Why are we going to bloody Turkey? We need to go to more traditional circuits" anymore.

2 - The design was perfectly laid out to suit the driving style of Felipe Massa who pretty much won all the time here.

3 - Everyone is so happy to be racing here that everyone is ignoring the fact that Turkey is a country in the grip of the Covid pandemic (400k case, 10k deaths and 2,500 cases just today), in the middle of a war with Syria, and has questionable human rights issues towards its Kurdish population.

I'm not and expert on these issue so can't preach about it but I am aware of them. I went on holiday just outside Bodrum once. It was lovely.

But what can I say about the actual race? Well nothing really because I've actually stopped watching F1 this year and just read about the races in my Google alerts. The whole thing is a big back slapping posh off excuse for an advert at moment. It's a real shame because the greatest F1 driver of the modern era is at his peak. The big business manipulation of the sport leaves him open to the "he only wins because of the car", "Anything could win in his position" and "he's not Jim Clark" comments which inevitable follow any mention of him on the internet. I'll be honest I doubt Lewis Hamilton watches F1 anymore. I really hope he walks away from the sport and goes to do something different.

So, despite there being nothing left to race for and everything being won, F1 will plod on for a handful more races to fill it's TV contract obligation and give not one hoot about a global pandemic, carbon footprint or that the amount of money spent on one simple advert logo in a spot unseeable on a car could feed a huge amount of starving families having to visit food banks right now.

Enjoy the race.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Olivier Panis won a Grand Prix, it didn't mean he deserved to drive for a top team.

that was 1 freak result. that happen from time to time ie maldonado 2012 & gasly 2020. i dont think panis did much after. its not a freak if lightning strikes 9 times. which i think is record for podium finishes despite never having a competitive car. certainly the last 35yrs. maybe in f1 whole history

he's not in same league as these 2. but like Hamilton & Button in the wet. when they are doing time after time. it stops being luck

 

[cider_and_toast]

that was 1 freak result. that happen from time

In his first 4 years for Ligier / Prost, Panis stood on the podium 5 times with 1 win, 3 seconds and 1 third so, while his win had a certain degree of luck, calling it a freak result is a tad harsh.

 

[Galahad]

So...what needs to happen (I'm not talking sprinklers) to make F1 more like that, more often? If the governing body won't reduce the grip of the cars, maybe the circuits could apply ultra-low-grip surfaces?

 

[Johnny Carwash]

In his first 4 years for Ligier / Prost, Panis stood on the podium 5 times with 1 win, 3 seconds and 1 third so, while his win had a certain degree of luck, calling it a freak result is a tad harsh.

If he hadn’t broken his legs in Canada in 1997 he would have had a pretty good season that year.

 

[FB]

I'm sure I read an interview with Hermann Tilke where he said he would create ultra smooth, low grip surfaces on F1 tracks but he wasn't allowed as they are used by other series. Moto GP especially needs far more grip from the asphalt.

 

[cider_and_toast]

So...what needs to happen (I'm not talking sprinklers) to make F1 more like that, more often? If the governing body won't reduce the grip of the cars, maybe the circuits could apply ultra-low-grip surfaces?

Brundle complained at the start of the race that the organisers had provided a wonderfully revamped track but it was too wonderful in some places. Obviously referring to the ultra low grip from the recent resurfacing.

At the end of the race he was then banging on about making the case for drastically slashing downforce to reduce grip.

 

[F1Brits_90]

In his first 4 years for Ligier / Prost, Panis stood on the podium 5 times with 1 win, 3 seconds and 1 third so, while his win had a certain degree of luck, calling it a freak result is a tad harsh.

i hadnt realised that ligier was as successful as that. as im post 1998 but monaco 96 only 3 people finished so it was a freak in that sense.

but FB looking at the stats oliver panis couldve done a good job in a benetton or Ferrari after all he did beat Irvine in the championship

At the end of the race he was then banging on about making the case for drastically slashing downforce to reduce grip.

it was weird i remember back in 2017 IndyCar & F1 had new cars. IndyCar asked the drivers, slashed the downforce & F1 increased the downforce

 

[The Artist.....]

The thing about wet races is that it’s not the loss of downforce that makes for exciting races, but the loss of mechanical grip.

That being said, I don’t think that making the tyres much less grippy would be successful, as essentially, what the wet weather does is it rolls the dice. Effectively, the teams don’t have time to set up the car effectively, so there are compromises, which leads to unpredictability.

 

[cider_and_toast]

it was weird i remember back in 2017 IndyCar & F1 had new cars. IndyCar asked the drivers, slashed the downforce & F1 increased the downforce

F1 has for decades been making the mistake of asking the teams how to fix the sport. It's a bit like asking a London Taxi driver which roads should be closed to reduce pollution? He knows the area so well that he's never going to say anything that may harm his business or journey times.

 

[Galahad]

The thing about wet races is that it’s not the loss of downforce that makes for exciting races, but the loss of mechanical grip.

That being said, I don’t think that making the tyres much less grippy would be successful, as essentially, what the wet weather does is it rolls the dice. Effectively, the teams don’t have time to set up the car effectively, so there are compromises, which leads to unpredictability.

Perhaps not, but even if the teams settled into a new equilibrium of performance, it would be fun watching the drivers struggling to keep the cars pointing in a straight line. Verstappen provided some of the best onboard footage I've seen outside of the WRC. Plus, harder to drive cars should equal more mistakes, and a little more unpredictability, no?

 

[The Artist.....]

Galahad - I think that that's the key thing - the grip needs to be reduced so far such that the car starts to slide very quickly as soon as speed goes above adhesion levels... and such that the grip of the rear tyres is much less than the power being put down, so that drivers can't just mash the throttle, but need to gently apply it

 

[Galahad]

Absolutely. Grip has exceeded power in F1 since about 1977, and more's the pity.