Grand Prix 2018 Austrian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

There will be a car in Austria this weekend that should be regarded as one of the most famous ever made. It's a silver-grey colour and in most respects not that remarkable. The chap who drove around in it was an extremely divisive figure. Arrogant and authoritarian, loved by many but equally hated by a good many as well.

Lewis Hamilton and his Mercedes?

No.

The car in question sits in the Museum of Military History in Vienna. It's a Graf and Stift Automobile and was the car in which Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir to the Austrian throne, and his wife Sophie were murdered on the 28th of June 1914. Just 30 days later and the powers of Europe entered into a war that in four years would see around 31 million (just get that number around your head) people who had taken up arms, killed, wounded or missing in action and the deaths of around 8 million civilians.

At the end of the war, the so-called war to end all wars, Europe was left shattered and broken. The victorious powers took their revenge on the Central powers, dismantling the old orders, pulling apart the Austro-Hungarian empire and in the Treaty of Versailles, attempting to ensure such a thing could never happen again.

The disaffected soldiers of the Central Powers returned home to find a collapsed economy, fragile leadership and no real hope. While the great depression badly affected the globe, it created in central Europe the seeds for another power to rise. The leader of the National Socialists was a down on his luck, former Army Corporal, born in Austria but now settled in Munich. His rise to power has been well documented.

After the second world war the Allied Powers showed they had learnt their lesson from the failures of Versailles and a great deal of effort went in to re-building German industry. Great car makers such as Daimler-Benz and Volkswagen were soon turning out vehicles at an impressive rate. Mercedes dominated for a few years in Formula 1, taking back their place at the head of Grand Prix racing they'd held with their great rivals Auto Union during the inter war years.

Austria had never produced formula 1 cars but they certainly produced great drivers and two of the best known were the 1970 world champion Jochen Rindt and the triple world champion Niki Lauda.

Then in 1987, a drinks company was formed in Austria, modifying an energy drink already on sale in the far east, it became known worldwide as Red Bull. Already involved in sponsoring F1 cars, they eventually purchased the remains of the Jaguar team in 2004 and in 2005, Red Bull Racing was born. Much like Benetton before them, Red Bull took a while to establish themselves in F1, all this changed when along came a German. One Sebastian Vettel. Quickly taking the team to the top step of the podium and then on to drivers and constructors world championships, Austria could now lay claim to having both World Champion Drivers and a World Champion team. Something that America, the great bastion of the motor car cannot yet claim.

Red Bull saw an opportunity to bring F1 back to Austria in the shape of the Red Bull Ring. Formally known as the A1 Ring and before that, the fearsome, Osterreichring and it is here that we will find ourselves this weekend.

Finally, one last bizarre fact that will take us back to where we started.

The First World War ended on the 11th of November 1918. The 100th anniversary will be this year.

The 11th of November 1918 can be written as 11/11/18

The registration plate of the car in which the Archduke was killed?

A111118

Bizarre but true.
 
Anyhow, this could be an interesting race....but probably for the wrong reasons.

1. Will Bottas and Hamilton be allowed to race? - Yes they normally do. It depends on how well they take the start.

2. How much of challenge will it be for Vettel to pass Grosjean and Verstappen? Quite a challenge but not impossible

3. Will Raikkonnen dutifully pull over for Vettel? No - It will all take place in the pits.

4. Will Grosjean finally score a point? Yes - If the car holds together it shouldn't be a problem going on how well he's gone this weekend so far.

5. Has Leclerec signed a contract for Ferrari? - Who knows? I hope so. Poor Kimi should have moved on a couple of seasons ago.

Can't think of anything else. :D
 
Vettel's 3 place penalty .. I am amazed a team like Ferrari did not warn Vettel , Sainz is on a hot lap and keep off the racing line

I don't know what C4 team were trying to stir the pot that Ferrari are beginning to fade/ Mercedes have got their car sorted out and will be simply too quick from now on .. a hint of deja vu. Apart from not capitalising in the early season , and losing one of their engineers to Sauber, it seems like Paul Ricard and here where Hamilton looked more at one with the car they don't seem to have an answer to respond .

3 tenths clear on a short lap is at least 0.5 seconds a lap on a standard lap time so its ominous for the rest

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F1Brits_90 I did not see that coming were Force India's were barely ahead of Williams so the lack of money from their owners halting development looks more serious then first imagined


It gets no better for Mclaren either
 
By the way if anyone wants to see an amazing motor race then watch the GP2 feature race. Absolutely amazing.
 
I never get around to watching GP2. I only managed to catch the last race of the day from the last BTCC race. (Can't even remember where it was ?). I don't seem to have enough time in the day anymore.
 
I haven't bothered watching an F1 race live or in its entirety in a LONG time, since the Mercs have been so dominant that no one else need bother showing up. As far as I know, they have been the most dominant car in racing history, proven by their number of 1-2 finishes.

I have, however, frequently watched complete F2 races, as they are very entertaining, and the driver makes a HUGE difference, unlike in F1.
 
Vettel given a 3 place grid penalty for blocking Sainz.

Lewis Hamilton loses out to Valtteri Bottas in Austria & Sebastian Vettel is penalised

It's a conspiracy to make sure Hamilton wins the title I tells ya!


This penalty for blocking Sainz is way more harsh than the one last race for the crash at the start of the race which ruined Bottas' race, yet what he did to Sainz was way less in my opinion. I know, penalties are penalties and anyone who did what he did would have got the same thing, but it makes a mockery of things if you ask me.

Oh and I'm with you on the conspiracy theory FB
 
I wonder if Verstappen's refusal to obey team orders during qualifying, and the subsequent hard feelings on the part of Dan R will have any effect on the latter's decision for next year.

Personally, I still think that RB are backing the wrong horse. IMO, Max is too immature, both emotionally and intellectually to be a team leader, at least for now.
This time Ricciardo was in the wrong. According to Horner they alternate on who goes out first at every event, and this time it was Ricciardo’s turn. It does require some explaining as to how Verstappen acted immature yesterday.
 
This time Ricciardo was in the wrong. According to Horner they alternate on who goes out first at every event, and this time it was Ricciardo’s turn. It does require some explaining as to how Verstappen acted immature yesterday.

I think there’s a little more to it than that. I have to say that was my first thought when I heard the drivers speak afterwards. It was Ricciardo’s turn to go first, end of.

But Ricciardo was on a lower down force setting which left him vulnerable on the straight. He wanted ( and appears to think it was a given he would get, though he admits it wasn’t actually said in black and white) and needed, one shot with a tow.
That the team ordered Verstappen to overtake Ricciardo backs this up. Verstappen refused to obey that team order.

Its done now, so the easiest thing for Horner to say is, they take it in turns. Which was the line Max took. But I dont think it was that simple, that cut and dry.
Also, going on past experience, I think Danny is the more honourable of the two. He’s more likely to be the one who plays fair.
 
I never get around to watching GP2. I only managed to catch the last race of the day from the last BTCC race. (Can't even remember where it was ?). I don't seem to have enough time in the day anymore.

oh yeah i have the same problems as dont seem to watch the F2 & BTCC til Wednesday & Thursday sometimes. still got race 2 & 3 3 BTCC on the planner LOL
 
I think there’s a little more to it than that. I have to say that was my first thought when I heard the drivers speak afterwards. It was Ricciardo’s turn to go first, end of.
No, there’s nothing more to it.

But Ricciardo was on a lower down force setting which left him vulnerable on the straight. He wanted ( and appears to think it was a given he would get, though he admits it wasn’t actually said in black and white) and needed, one shot with a tow.
That the team ordered Verstappen to overtake Ricciardo backs this up. Verstappen refused to obey that team order.
I suppose you mean higher downforce. That’s his choice though, and he’d have known that it was his turn to lead the way this weekend, as Verstappen was the one who left the garage first last week.

Verstappen didn’t ignore team orders. It was his race engineer telling him to pass Ricciardo because he was obviously losing time behind him. Also slowing down for a prolonged period of time also means that the tyres start losing temperature.

Its done now, so the easiest thing for Horner to say is, they take it in turns. Which was the line Max took. But I dont think it was that simple, that cut and dry.
Also, going on past experience, I think Danny is the more honourable of the two. He’s more likely to be the one who plays fair.
It’s not only the easiest thing to say, but also a fact that they’ve been taking it in turns and easily verifiable by looking at all the qualifying sessions this season.

Ricciardo was in the wrong here. Full Stop. I’m not going down the line of who’s more honourable. Ricciardo is all smiles in front of the media, but there have been a few points in the last years we’re hes showed a different side of himself. It’s highly subjective to say he’s more honourable than Verstappen.

Here’s a transcript of the radio messages:
Run 1
Turn 3:RIC slows down just before the cornerVER overtakes RIC into the cornerVER:“Why is Daniel swapping?”VER’s engineer:“I don’t know. Carry on.”VER slows downRIC overtakes VERRun 2Out of turn 3:RIC slows down, putting his car in 1st gear, doesn’t pick up the pace, waiting for VER to overtakeVER:“Mate, what are we doing?”Out of turn 4:RIC slows down again putting it in 1st gear again, waiting for VER to overtakeRIC’s engineer:“Come on, mate. You need to pick it up, otherwise we’re not gonna get another lap. Let’s go.VER:“Uhm… I think it’s his turn to go for this Grand Prix. So, tell him to speed up.”RIC (moping):“There’s no point in me running…”RIC’s engineer (interrupts):“Get on with it.”RIC (frustrated, raising voice):“…Punching a hole.”RIC starts to pick up the paceRIC’s engineer:“Get on with it.”RIC:“Let’s at least go one for one.”RIC’s engineer:“You’ll get a go on the next one”Run 3Out of turn 3:RIC:“What’s the margin?”RIC’s engineer:“30 seconds.”RIC, upon being answered, slows down dramatically, waiting for VER to overtake himVER:“GP, what’s going on?”VER’s engineer (worried about getting in a good lap):"Overtake him, mate. Just overtake him. "VER:“No. Last weekend I was in front. Now he’s in front. Come on, man.”RIC starts to pick up the paceVER’s engineer:“Max, overtake him, mate.”VER:“No. It’s discipline.”
 
Not really. It is the most childish though.

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OK. Time for some of Raspy's notoriously bad predictions (stand by to rub them in my face teabagyokel):

Grosjean to not score any points

Kimi to lose places on the grid

Bottas to look set for the win but some mysterious problem means he slows and Lewis wins

Thestrappon to get driver of the day for a podium but not really do anything impressive despite the accolades.

Alonso to say something comical and saving on the radio.

Vettel to be investigated for something.
 
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