Grand Prix 2017 Brazilian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

So both the drivers and constructors championships are over. Mercedes are constructors champions (again) and Lewis Hamilton has recovered the title stolen from him by Nico Rosberg last year. Now it's time to go to (often not so) sunny Brazil and the race between the lakes.

Do you remember last year? It rained and the race stopped and started as as showers turned in to storms and back again. It went on for over 3 hours, 3 hours and 1 minute to be exact. Lewis won but Max Verstappen won a whole host of new fans as he pitched his Red Bull about in the rain in a fashion rarely seen in modern Formula 1. In reality the driver of the day last year was Lewis, his control and poise in the race were sublime and this race, of itself, probably deserved a title of its own. But Nico tippytoed around behind Lewis, stealing second and doing his best Nelson Piquet impression as he did "just enough" to keep his title bid on track.

So what can we expect this year? The last couple of races have been a bit confusing as Red Bull have somehow managed to find enough pace to get ahead of Ferrari and look like being able to challenge Mercedes. Was it just the circuits or have Red Bull, with their "Tag Heuer" engines, found some more power to go with their usual exceptional chassis. Don't expect too much from qualie as Merc will turn their engine up to 12, or 13, or whatever number they are able to push it past 10, and Lewis will add to his record number of poles. But come the race, assuming the front three don't nerf one another off at the first corner, we could be in for a battle at the front.

Poor Danny Ric has caught whatever bug affected Max earlier in the season. Fingers crossed he will be able to put in a full shift in Brazil and show what he is capable of against the Dutch upstart across the garage. Don't expect too much from Vettel and Hamilton's respective team mates. Their feeble spirit has been broken and they both know their place in the team. The only chance I think of Bottas taking a win is Lewis sympathetically moving across at the last corner to let Valtteri through.

Elsewhere, Force India will be the best of the rest and the rest will be pretty crap by comparison with the top three teams. Perhaps this is a little harsh on Renault who, now they have a proper driver, look to be able to be up in the top 10 by right. One other thought, will we see tears in the pit lane again from Felipe Massa as this could be his last race in his home country, again.

Finally - Pop quiz - Who was the last driver to be lapped at the race he won the Drivers World Championship?
 
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problem with Bottas is that you get judged v your teammate & unfortuantly since he won in Austria he hasnt been anywhere close. but what would be the story that people want to tell at the moment

That Mclaren Honda package is starting to look good Isn't it? Let's hope changing engine supplier doesn't set them back. The Renault is hardly awesome at the moment is it?

yeah the reliablity isnt good & almost worst than honda but i think mclaren improvement its more down to the alonso miracles. he done down the years like ferrari 2012 & mclaren aero improvement. because they were still bottom of speed traps i think 1 of mclarens were 315kph top was 332kph
 
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Yes it seems to be the common opinion that Alonso is basically Fred Flintstone style pushing that car on with his feet. The problem with that theory is that he wasn't able to do it earlier in the season and Vandoorne seems to be able to do it too. I think Honda have to be given credit for how much they've improved over the season if nothing else.
 
Yes it seems to be the common opinion that Alonso is basically Fred Flintstone style pushing that car on with his feet. The problem with that theory is that he wasn't able to do it earlier in the season and Vandoorne seems to be able to do it too. I think Honda have to be given credit for how much they've improved over the season if nothing else.
In 2010 and onwards there was plenty of talk of Alonso extracting 120% out of the car; he must have figured a way out of breaking the laws of physics or Einstein et al. didn't define them correctly.
 
plenty of action down the field, if nothing at the top of field. great moves from Hamilton & Riccardios trademark overtakes that came from so far back he started in Argentina. Bottas did well even if he was never a challenger because vettel always looked like he was doing the jackie Stewart quote of winning at slowest speed & i dont want to keep knocking him. you never know it might be better tyre strategy but for Lewis to finish 3secs behind bottas when he was on pole & lewis pit lane is bit worrying.

also few minor things i wonder if Grosjean penalty is because i noticed that the safety car had been deployed for at least 10secs before ocon & grosjean came together at that tricky T5. i mentioned it at austin bit again today the gap between top 3 & rest is worrying. Hamilton & Riccardio was like watching le mans 24hrs with LMP1 overtaking LMP2 cars

& i wasnt emotional at message from massa kid but really what a lovely touching message cant wait to see how massa will get us crying in 2018 after 2016 & 2017. although i didnt get the point of televising massa interview because i doubt there many English viewers on sky f1 are fluent in Portuguese or should i say "duvida que muitos espectadores na Inglaterra são fluentes em português"
 
plenty of action down the field, if nothing at the top of field. great moves from Hamilton & Riccardios trademark overtakes that came from so far back he started in Argentina.
Hamilton drove past most of the cars on track, there was nothing they could do such was the power of the Mercedes. The worrying thing is that Mercedes have a mighty advantage.

An important factor in Hamilton's hunt through the field was the new engine, the Mercedes into the car with the start number 44 after the training crash. Originally, version 2.0 was in the car, an older specification from the first half of the season. The engine 3.1, which debuted in Spa, had been saved for the final. It is said to have around 15 hp more than its predecessors. How much exactly can only be determined from GPS values.
However, Mercedes has at most given this engine type the spurs in qualifying. In the race the picture remained diffuse. I turned down the engine most of the time, often even before I was asked to do so,"Hamilton reveals. In Interlagos, the Mercedes M08 V6 turbo let its muscles play. On the home straight the Mercedes flew the Ferrari at 7.4 km/h away. And Hamilton was 4 km/h faster than his team mate Valtteri Bottas.

In Brazil the Englishman had a fresh version of the 3.1 specification in his back. Because Mercedes was able to install a fifth drive unit consisting of combustion engine, turbocharger and MGU-H without penalty. Plus a fresh transmission. Since this engine only had to survive two races and one qualifying session, there were no longer the usual limitations as with engines designed for a 5,000 kilometer runtime. I attacked for the first time from the first to the last lap and drove the engine as hard as I could "Impressive for the spectators, interesting for the competition. They can figure out how far behind they really are.
From a political point of view, it may have been an own goal. Mercedes is currently in the clinch with Formula 1 management. This forces a new engine regulation also because of the imbalance in performance between the engines of Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Honda. Mercedes argues that the difference is not as big as is generally assumed. Consumption figures for Mexico speak a different language. Mercedes came with 89 kilograms of gasoline over the 71 laps. Ferrari needed 101 kilograms for the same distance. In the current efficiency formula, consumption equals performance.
- AMUS, translated by DeepL
 
If this was a new motor did it have to conform to the new oil burning regs? I'm sure that part of the drop off in Ferrari's pace was about the time the oil rules changed and then they introduced a new engine version which met these new requirements.
 
i noticed this great video of comparison between max verstappen 2017 fastest lap & Montoya's 2004 lap (also some stills to shows the gap between both cars)


Screenshot_20171113-231832.png

Screenshot_20171113-231627.png

Screenshot_20171113-231731.png
 
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