Grand Prix 2012 Monaco Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
Those I found on photobucket.com it is an image sharing website just type it into google although it may not be available on your side of the globe...

Edit

The girl looks a bit manic....
 

Viscount

Pole Sitter
Contributor
RasputinLives

This photo shows how slow Hamilton's start was compared to the others. Despite it only being a short run into the first turn the front 2 had quite a gap to Hamilton and the 3 cars behind closed on him quickly. As someone previously mentioned, his slow start might have been the catalyst for the Grosjean incident, with them almost running 4 cars wide on a tight track.

Monaco start.jpg
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
Sorry but still think Lewis has had far worse starts this season. I think what you're looking at in that picture is both Merc and Alonso having quick starts and people going defensive. Lets rememebr Rosberg, Schumie and Alonso have all been getting flyers this season.

I just think his problem at the start have been exaggerated as I don't think it would have made any difference to his race whatsoever.
 

Quintessentially

-
Contributor
Despite Hamilton’s relatively bad start, I think Grosjean has no one to blame but himself. He moved to cover but Alonso had already occupied the spot after spotting Hamilton’s poor start. He then had the option of getting off the throttle because you can’t veer across wildly like that at the start of a race and not expect to head for an early shower. He got greedy and paid the price for the third time this season. Anyway, I think still pictures don’t always tell the whole story.
 

Viscount

Pole Sitter
Contributor
If the closest 5 cars (4 teams) have a better start than you, I'd consider that a slow start. Speed is relative.

I don't really think it's being exaggerated, no-one's saying he would have won the race with a better start and neither did he lose any positions. Just acknowledging the fact that it was a slow start.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I think Grosjean has no one to blame but himself. He moved to cover but Alonso had already occupied the spot after spotting Hamilton’s poor start. He then had the option of getting off the throttle because you can’t veer across wildly like that at the start of a race and not expect to head for an early shower. He got greedy and paid the price for the third time this season.
Although this is very off topic, you say that Grosjean is the one to blame and he veered wildly at the start, it was infact Alonso that veered into Alonso with Grosjean keeping his car straight after Grosjean made his intial move.


Watch from 0.03 - 0.06s, it was Alonso's car that moved into Grosjean's not the other way around.
 
I don't understand what the issue is in discussing LHs bad start. He said it was a bad start, it looked like a bad start, ergo it probably was a bad start. Was it driver error or clutch settings

I don't think we need to think too hard for that answer

Did it mess his race up, only LH can say what the consequences were, I think he did
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
Slyboogy Seeing it from that angle one wonders what Schumi was thinking. He's been to Monaco often enough to know that trying to go four wide on the outside is going to hang yourself out to dry. He was lucky to get away with that, methinks.

:oops: Forgot what thread I was in
 

Quintessentially

-
Contributor
Although this is very off topic, you say that Grosjean is the one to blame and he veered wildly at the start, it was infact Alonso that veered into Alonso with Grosjean keeping his car straight after Grosjean made his intial move.


Watch from 0.03 - 0.06s, it was Alonso's car that moved into Grosjean's not the other way around.

It's not clear cut and too far back looking at it from Vettel's car to pass accurate judgement. Shumi's on board footage paints a different picture but as you say it's off topic so we leave it here.
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
Sorry but still think Lewis has had far worse starts this season. I think what you're looking at in that picture is both Merc and Alonso having quick starts and people going defensive. Lets rememebr Rosberg, Schumie and Alonso have all been getting flyers this season.

I just think his problem at the start have been exaggerated as I don't think it would have made any difference to his race whatsoever.
That would be true if it were not for the fact that Lewis got on the radio and asked the team what happened to my start I went nowhere so obviously he felt his start was poor and he was blaming the team for it, which brings back to the clutch settings situation..
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
It's not clear cut and too far back looking at it from Vettel's car to pass accurate judgement. Shumi's on board footage paints a different picture but as you say it's off topic so we leave it here.
It was clear from the sky pad that Alonso went left due to Hamilton's bad start, to be honest I don't think he had any choice this pushed Romain left and so squeezed a very fast starting Schumacher into the wall.

I was just one of those nowhere for anyone to go type of incidents...

Actually I think that if Schumacher hadn't of had such a good start then both Alonso and Romain would have got past Hamilton before the first corner so in essence Hamilton benefited from his poor start..

Not quite sure what this has to do with Lewis V Button though.
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
I don't really think it's being exaggerated, no-one's saying he would have won the race with a better start and neither did he lose any positions. Just acknowledging the fact that it was a slow start.
Viscount the reason I'm arguing that it wasn't too bad a start is because of this stuff

I don't understand what the issue is in discussing LHs bad start. He said it was a bad start, it looked like a bad start, ergo it probably was a bad start. Was it driver error or clutch settings

I don't think we need to think too hard for that answer

Did it mess his race up, only LH can say what the consequences were, I think he did
Basically the brigade that will come out and blame Mclaren making mistakes for Lewis not winning or finishing higher up where really he was just outpaced and probably outperformed by the guys that finished in front of him. Whether that was Lewis or the car we don't know but the whole "Mclaren told him to change his clutch settings and that led to a bad start that ruined his race" line thats being suggested is pure nonesense IMHO.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Basically the brigade that will come out and blame Mclaren making mistakes for Lewis not winning or finishing higher up..
Lewis Hamilton started the race third. He was still third into the first corner. Had he got a better start, would he have finished any further up the field? Probably not - as he would STILL have been third into the first corner as Rosberg and Webber both made good starts! The only difference is that Grosjean might not have been eliminated, which would have meant that Kobayashi wasn't launched into Button, meaning that Button wouldn't have spent all race behind Kovalainen.

Disclaimer: Before anyone suggests it, I am not blaming Hamilton for Grosjean's accident. Nor am I suggesting that it is the McLaren team's fault that Button spent the race behind Kovi. These are just accidents, and part of the nature of riding a motorbike round your granny's bathroom! (Sorry, driving an f1 car at Monaco)
 

Viscount

Pole Sitter
Contributor
Ah, I get you now RasputinLives, pretty much agree with everything you said there. Didn't realise anyone was implying that his start affected his eventual finish. In my opinion his race came down to not taking the initiative or just copying Alonso and saving his tyres early in the race.
 
I don't think we can say circumstances at the start caused Button to be stuck behind Kov

His getting out qualified by 13 guys caused that
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
I don't think we can say circumstances at the start caused Button to be stuck behind Kov

His getting out qualified by 13 guys caused that
JB started 12th Kovalainen started 17th. Yes, he had a bad qualifying, but had it not been for the Grosjean accident, there is no way that Kovalainen would have been ahead of Button into turn 1. Yes, it is true that if you have a bad qualifying, then you're more likely to get caught up in someone else's problem, but trying to deny that circumstances played a part is just trying to wind people up. - or was that what you were trying to achieve?
 

Bill Boddy

Professional layabout
Contributor
@The Artist had Hamilton got a better start leading to the Grosjean accident no happening it is quite possible that Vettel, who moved up the field at least partially by cutting the first corner, would not have passed Raikonnen. This would have led to him being severely held up and not able to get back into the field in front of Hamilton once he (Vettel) pitted.
 
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