Grand Prix 2012 European Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Valencia........

Even Abu Dhabi and Bahrain are more exciting in comparison. Valencia is the only grand prix on the calendar that I genuinley do not look forward to. It's dull, boring and hasn't provided an interesting race at all since its inception on the F1 calendar in 2008. Thankfully it won't be a regular feature in the future as it will be alternating with Barcelona in the future.

Going into the Grand Prix Lewis Hamilton is back as the Championship leader after becoming the 7th driver to win in 7 races with victory in the Canadian Grand Prix. After missing out on the podium in recent races he was back with vengeance after fighting back from starting second and being third with 10 laps to go but thanks to fresher tyres he made easy work of Vettel and Alonso in the latter laps who fell away after a gamble to one stop failed. In the end Roman Grosjean and Sergio Perez finished on the podium and it is testament to the unpredictably of 2012 that it wasn't the first time either of them have been on the podium this season.

From race to race no team has been consistently at the very front, in Spain it was Williams, in Monaco it was Red Bull and in Canada it was McLaren. Both Ferrari and Lotus have probably been the most consistent package over recent weeks but not enough to win races with podium places the highest they can manage, but considering the start to the season Ferrari made, that probably isn't a bad thing and Alonso is only 2 points off the championship leader with world champion Vettel just one point behind in third.

It's a complete reversal of 2011 as this time last year Hamilton left Canada with a world of problems after a DNF which involved a collision with team mate Button who went on to win one of the best races of his career passing Vettel on the last lap. But 12 months later Hamilton won the race with Button finishing a lapped 16th. What's worse for the 2009 champion is that was on merit as well and not down to any car failures or pit problems, it marks a horrid fall from grace after winning the opening race in Melbourne and an early run of podiums but now he is struggling to even get into Q3 and convert that into points finishes. Button appears clueless as to where the problem lies and it may not be a short term fix as the car isn't slow as Hamilton is currently proving. It could be already over as far as Button's title hopes are concerned as he is currently 43 points behind Hamilton and has roughly half the points total.

It is also interesting to note that Button was further behind the leader last season and he was second in the championship, while at the moment he lies in 8th behind both Lotus drivers who are the only front running drivers yet to win a race (excluding Schumacher) and having come close in Bahrain and Spain they will want to be the next winners and take the total to 8 winners in 8 races and with both Raikkonen and Grosjean closely matched it's hard to say who is the more likely. But it's Grosjean's form which is the most surprising, a lot of people questioned why he was given the driver role given the way he was outperformed in 2009 and a lot of people said he would be outraced by the returning Finn, but after 7 races he is only 2 points behind and that is despite several first lap incidents where he has been the innocent part in some cases but not others (Malaysia). With the pendulum swinging from race to race it is hard to predict who will have the upper hand in the Spanish heat.

For Galahad's brilliant circuit write up - http://cliptheapex.com/pages/valencia-street-circuit/

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I was astounded watching the live timing. Purple purple pure purple purple purple purple purple purple purple purple wow purple!

 

[Il_leone]

I did not think Valencia was going to be exciting for once and this time they got the DRS right and drivers trying different strategies plus the SC made it an exciting race

I am still not a fan of the track there are a few mickey mouse corners like the old US street circuits that could be altered

 

[Brogan]

Red Bull / Helmut Marko have accused the race organisers of deliberately trying to hamper Vettel by releasing the safety car: http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/f...-verschwoerung-vettel-war-zu-weit-vorne-.html

Even Vettel himself makes a few comments about it, saying it's not clear why the SC came out.

 

[tranquility2k9]

I don't think there was an issue with the safety car coming out, he was how long it stopped out for, letting back-markers rejoin the pack. That was a bit of a joke and needs sorting out immediately.

 

[RickD]

teabagyokel - What I found interesting over the weekend was a comment while watching the GP2 races from one of the drivers about the tyres and the fact that you don't take anywhere near as much life out of them if you are leading, meaning you don't have to push hard to get the speed out of them. I can understand this if 2nd backwards are close as the turbulent air will affect grip levels and may account for why the leader sometimes gets a big gap straight away and then it tapers off.

That chart is interesting as Perez seems to be the only one getting close to Vettel even though he didn't have clear air, so either the Sauber is great with its tyres (or Perez is) and doesn't care if its in traffic or the reason the others (all 22 others) can't get as much out of their tyres at this point of the race..

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Brogan,
That's errant nonsense from Red Bull, not to say mischief-making. They need look no further than their 'junior' team driver who first crashed stupidly into a car he was overtaking, then tried to drive so fast back to the pits with a punctured rear tyre that he demolished half his car and left it all over the track in little carbon fibre bits. What ever Marko might try and claim, that mess definitely needed to be cleared.

Hamilton was affected far more seriously by the SC (albeit indirectly, due to a consistently incompetent pit crew).

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It seems to me that whatever the Renault's are doing with thier engine to pull out the performance they are achieving in both the Red Bull and the Lotus makes them quite prone to issues when overheating and that the temperatures in Valencia along with the safety car only added to this. I am only speculating but it seems to me like a feasible explanation for whatever happened with regards to Vettel and Grosjean's drive issue.

 

[Quintessentially]

I thought the appearance of the SC looked a bit dodgy. Vettel was running away with it and it was starting to look like the Valencia we expected. Could the debris have been cleared under waved double yellows? Possibly, but it did look strange and very unsafe when the marshals pushed a stranded car (was it Grosjean’s) from the track with cars blasting past at significant speed.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

I thought the appearance of the SC looked a bit dodgy. Vettel was running away with it and it was starting to look like the Valencia we expected. Could the debris have been cleared under waved double yellows? Possibly, but it did look strange and very unsafe when the marshals pushed a stranded car (was it Grosjean’s) from the track with cars blasting past at significant speed.

It was Vettels car, there's a discussion on this very subject over in the 2012 Season thread.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Apparantly McLaren's 2.6s stop in Valencia (Hamilton's first) was the fastest ever Formula 1 pitstop. If they cut out the mistakes they really could be a force to be reckoned with in the pit lane.

EDIT

Apparantly it wasn't just the fastest stop in F1 history but it was the fastest stationary stop in motor sport history.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

The Hamilton / Maldonado affair, and some people's comments about it on here, lead me to think that some are under a misapprehension about the rules on defensive driving (this is intended as a general point about this aspect of the rules, rather than a continuation of the debate about that specific incident).

The rule on defensive driving states that when a driver is under attack, if he moves over to defend and then returns to the racing line prior to entering the corner, at that point he must leave at least a car's width on the outside of the track.
Here's the actual rule for the avoidance of doubt (my bold):

20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving
back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off‐line, should leave at least
one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.

There is no rule saying that a driver must leave a car's width on the exit of a corner, whether under attack or not (other than the rule about deliberately crowding out an opponent).

20.4 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the
edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted

If one enters a corner on the racing line, the natural exit will also be on that racing line, i.e. clipping the outside kerb after the corner, not keeping a car's width away from that kerb.

It would clearly be ridiculous to have a rule stating that drivers must keep a car's width away from the track edge at all times around the circuit to allow any attackers a way past, and there is indeed no such rule.

 

[Bill Boddy]

The racing line is a red herring. There is no such thing in the rules. A driver has to leave room for a car alongside him otherwise he is crowding him off the track. There is a rule against that, you just quoted it.

If you want to see just how the rule should work watch Webber overtake Alonso at Eau Rouge last season. Alonso gave him a car's width and no more, Webber had the guts, and the confidence in Alonso, to take it. That was fair racing by both drivers.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Red Bull / Helmut Marko have accused the race organisers of deliberately trying to hamper Vettel

I have absolutely no doubt that race organizers take certain things into consideration when deploying Safety Cars. This time the main thing to consider was that there was never going to be a fight for the race win with Seb sailing away. A Safety Car was going to spice things up immensely, and they wouldn't pass up that opportunity as long as Nando wasn't out front.

These comments also shed light on a major aspect of the Red Bull/Vettel partnership. They've got his back, all the time, every time. No matter how ridiculous it might seem (ahem, Turkey 2010, ahem), they go to bat for him. It must be a remarkable feeling to know that you've got an entire support network around you that will back you to the hilt.

The Hamilton/McLaren partnership is seriously lacking this. Somebody should have spoken out against Maldonado. The fact that they dissembled, and even gently suggested that their driver should have handled the situation differently is an absolute joke. This was one of the most clear cut punt-jobs in recent memory, and all we get from McLaren is a fairly innocuous acknowledgment that you have to be very careful around a driver of Maldonado's stature.


EDIT -

The racing line is a red herring. There is no such thing in the rules. A driver has to leave room for a car alongside him otherwise he is crowding him off the track.

You've got to be kidding me Bill. Good drivers crowd and get crowded all the time. It's imbeciles like Maldonado that feel if they get crowded they're entitled to drive straight into someone.

Your premise is nonsense.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

This is why we have human stewards. In the hope that they can apply common sense. Again, I refer back to Spa 2008 once again where Kimi was not penalised for crowding Lewis off the track before that incident. this is because Kimi, despite being the slower car took the racing line and did not give it up. Fortunately, in that situation Lewis had the common sense to abort the manouvre and not return to the track by ramming into Kimi's Ferrari.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

The racing line is a red herring. There is no such thing in the rules.

No it isn't and yes there is. Rule 20.3, which I quoted above, specifically mentions it.

And taking the natural line out of a corner to clip the outside kerb on exit does not of itself constitute crowding someone out. Crowding someone off the circuit happens in general on the way into a corner or down a straight. Herr Schumacher was past master at that sort of thing.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

For the same reason, I don't believe that Alonso crowded Vettel off the circuit in Aus last year.

 

[Lewywo4]

Ayton Senna vs Nigel Mansell Monaco 1992.
It is possible for a driver in a slower car to hold off a far superior car and for two drivers to contest a motor race with vigour, courage and respect.

Another good example that speaks to your point......Alonso & Schumacher Imola 2005.

 

[Speshal]

I have absolutely no doubt that race organizers take certain things into consideration when deploying Safety Cars..

Wouldn't it be race control i.e the FIA and more specifically Charlie Whiting that make the decision to deploy the safety car rather than the locals who put on the show?

 

[Viscount]

The racing line is a red herring. There is no such thing in the rules. A driver has to leave room for a car alongside him otherwise he is crowding him off the track. There is a rule against that, you just quoted it.

You don't have to leave a car's width, you only have to leave space after you have made one move across the track. Remember Rosberg against Hamilton and Alonso in Bahrain?

All the time you have to leave a space!

Well not according to the stewards.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Please read the rule in question. A driver cannot crowd another off the circuit. This means that he must leave sufficient space for someone beside him at any time.