Grand Prix 2011 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The fat bloke lady is starting to sing

Sebastian Vettel took a major stride towards a second world championship after a crushing win in Belgium, he extended his lead over Mark Webber who made a good recovery from a bad start to finish second after a fantastic overtake on Fernando Alonso into Eau Rouge.

Lewis Hamiltons indifferent season continued after a crash with Kamui Kobayashi into Les Combes, while he won't admit it, he will be close to giving up on closing down Vettel as he is over 100 points behind, but while he can't win the championship, that won't stop him going to win every race remaining and with Monza being a strong McLaren track, he will be up there in the running.

Monza is one of the most historic tracks on the F1 calendar and will be full of Ferrari fans as it is the teams home race and the tifosi are known for their support of the prancing horse and after a Ferrari win in 2010 they willl be expecting more of the same from Fernando who needs a win to keep alive his fading championship hopes but an average showing in Spa including losing third place late on will be a killer blow to the Spaniard. Massa is sliding further into obscurity after a good start, but faded quickly into the minor points.

The track isn't one of Red Bulls strongest circuits due to the low downforce and long straights but we have said that a few circuits aren't Red Bull friendly circuits and Vettel has gone on to get pole and win and Monza might not be an exception with Vettel in imperious form and the car seemingly bulletproof there is no-one who can stop the bull racing to the title in emphatic fashion.

After a turbluent weekend, Pastor Maldanado picked up his first point in F1 with a strong drive to tenth (and a lot of luck) to give his beleagured Williams outfit a small reason to be happy but it represents how far they have fallen in that a point is an achievement for them. Barrichello finished a dissapointing 16th finishing behind both Lotus cars.

Bruno Senna will be aiming to improve on a promising first weekend back in F1, he qualified a brilliant 7th, but rusty racecraft caused a bad collision at turn 1 and he eventually finished 13th, the last of the unlapped cars, Petrov managed to pick up a handful of points to go level with his former team mate Nick Heidfeld who is seeking legal advice after losing his seat last week to the young Brazilian.

Adrian Sutil continues his upturn in form after outpacing Di Resta who had a poor weekend with the German taking home 7 points and Di Resta just finishing outside the points in 11th, with Nico Hulkenberg challenging for a set at Force India next season, both these two drivers have improved lately with both taking home points from the last few races
At the back of the field, Jarno Trulli finished ahead of his team-mate showing that maybe he still has some pace in the Lotus now that they have fixed the power steering issues, with Chandhok just over his shoulder he will need to beat his team-mate to ensure that he still has a seat at the team next year and extend his long career.

For Galahads supreme circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/autodromo-nazionale-monza/

 

[Galahad]

One reason for not running DRS might be to give you an idea of your straightline speed in race conditions, and therefore how much of a sitting duck you are going to be (or not) compared to your rivals.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

They also have no DRS for the first three laps. One of the most critical phases for determining the outcome of the race but I think you have hit on something. It was the straights that McLaren really lost out on at Spa. Looks like some really sensible running in P2.

 

[Galahad]

If, for example, you were massively down on speed at the end of the straights, you might consider changing rear wings and going for a lower-drag option. FP3 is a bit late to be making those sorts of changes, but better late than never.

All speculation at this stage.

 

[Quintessentially]

The introduction of the second DRS detection point wlll change the thinking of a lot of teams. Parabolica is fairly high speed so they can run a bit more downforce and escape the clutches of the following car for the second DRS zone down the pit straight. You'll also probably find more lap time here than on the long straights, especially in quali where you can offset with DRS any drag penalty brought about by running more downforce . It could be a different story in the race.

 

[Quintessentially]

According to Ted Kravitz the FIA are looking into regulating camber settings after Red Bull's "safety" concerns at Spa. Red Bull are arguing that any regulation would breach their freedom to be allowed to alter their suspension settings as they wish.
As much as I can't stand Red Bull, I agree with them. There is, however, one simple solution - admit that the 'safety concerns' were a smokescreen and the blistering was their own fault. They ran excessive camber in order to make their car faster, which in turn blistered the tyres. Back off the camber, no blistering, simple. That's like running Monza-spec wings everywhere and then complaining on safety grounds that the car won't go round corners.

I agree they should be free to do what they want and my best guess is that FIA won't ratify this as the safety concerns are minimal unless the teams are stupid enough to wear the tyre down to nothing. Also the 'fall of the cliff effect' is significant with the Pirellis so you are going to lose massive performance before structural damage to the tyre and subsequently safety concerns kick in. Redbull tried to pull a fast one and were found out and reports suggest they are doing it again, albeit not to the extents at Spa.

 

[Josh]

Williams has been fined for a breach of the tyre regulations: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94395

They used a set of options that was not allocated for practice.

Does this mean that they have one less set of options for this weekend..? I'd guess not? Does anyone know?

 

[Boyle]

Not sure Josh but I'd imagine it just means Rubens will simply have one less set of tyres to use for the rest of the weekend that had been allocated for the remaining sessions. Other than that I think a 5000 euros fine is sufficient.

 

[teabagyokel]

Tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of the death of Wolfgang von Trips.
It is the 11th anniversary of the death of Paolo Ghislimberti.
It is the 32nd anniversary of the crash which lead to the death of Ronnie Peterson.

It is also the birthday of Bruno Giacomelli, in happier news!

 

[KekeTheKing]

You'll also probably find more lap time here (Parabolica) than on the long straights

So why have teams always opted for minimum downforce setups at Monza then?

Even if McLaren miraculously take pole tomorrow, I'll be very concerned about their low top-end speed in the race. I'm not sure what kind of fuel load Webber was on near the end of FP2, but he easily breezed past Hamilton near the end of the pit straight.

 

[tranquility2k9]

Baring in mind the Soft tyres are meant to be between 0.8 and 1.2 seconds faster than the Medium tyre based on 2nd Practice times and Pirelli observation, Hamilton's FP1 time, even faster than Vettel's in FP2 was very impressive. Vettel was around 1.2 seconds quicker in FP2 than he was in FP1, however, surely the hotter conditions in FP2 were actually meaning lower overall times were set. In all honesty, it only looked like the McLaren's went backwards or "sandbagged" from FP1 - FP2 and therefore, either McLaren suffered more in the hot temperatures or they actually have a massive qualifying advantage here.

Vettel certainly seemed wary and Hamilton certainly seemed confident in their post-FP2 interviews. Whatever the case, there is no doubt that the cooler temperatures in FP1, with the harder tyre (notoriously more difficult to warm up) showed McLaren's and Hamilton's combined ability to be able to heat up tyres more quickly than any other car-driver combination on the grid. If F1 were ever to have a tyre that was difficult to warm up, whatever the conditions, then I think Hamilton would dominate.

Hamilton's naturally aggressive style can "sometimes" cause him problems with tyre wear, but time and time again he has shown that it gives him an "ace in the pack" in qualifying over a single lap. Just look at Hungary where he was able to get through to Q3 without using a single set of soft tyres. He was able to get the optimum out of the harder, prime compound on his first flying lap - no one else could. Quite incredibly really.

I really enjoy seeing the difference between Hamilton and Button and I hope they continue as team mates for a long time. What would be most fascinating would be if they had the best car throughout the season. Although I'd expect Hamilton to come out on top, I think we could see a battle royal. Both are great overtakers, but where Button fails Hamilton thrives and vice versa. Button needs a car to his liking whereas Hamilton can seemingly drive round anything. If they both had a great car though, Button would likely be tuned in, which is a formidable force against anyone (e.g. Brawn 2009). Hamilton gets heat into his tyres in qualifying and gets that advantage, where Button sometimes struggles, but Button can make his tyres last longer and make those cruicial tactical decisions himself that Lewis often gets let down on by his team.

I have to say, I believe both are great drivers, but I think Lewis is a bit more of the old-skool breed of F1 driver. Out of all drivers currently on the grid, I think Lewis could handle the massively different cars of the "olden days" when downforce and grip were constantly on the edge and drivers really had to throw a car round the track.

All in all, it should be fun tomorrow. I predict Hamilton and Button to occupy the first 2 slots on the grid. Believe me, McLaren are VERY fast here over a single lap. Red Bull are slower in the corners but also a match at best on the straights. They could catch up in the corners but then will be down in the straights. I've studied a lot of data and read various analysis to come to these conclusions, or should I say "opinions". I don't usually sit on the fence, but equally, I rarely make a bold statement unless im quite certain that it will come true.

Bring on qualifying.

 

[mjo]

BBC weather says chance of a thundery shower on Sunday.

 

[Road of Bones]

Like your thinking Tranq!

Sadly, I'm moving house this weekend, and the movers are due to arrive sometime around lap 3, so I'm going to have to V+ it, and then avoid all media until I can sit in my denuded front room on a garden chair and watch the rest of the proceedings later (before finally packing my TV and V+ box & going to Mrs Bones's...). Go Jenson...

 

[Slyboogy]

F1 website says it will be sunny

 

[tranquility2k9]

So why have teams always opted for minimum downforce setups at Monza then?

You've got to remember last year we had the F-duct and this year the DRS. This in itself has meant Monza has many more tactical options to be analysed than in recent years. It is also notable now that most engineers say the gap between high downforce tracks and lower downforce tracks is much smaller (in the parts and car they bring) than it used to be.

With the F-duct (in 2010) there were essentially 2 extremes, with the extremes generally seeming more beneficial than going for an in-between. Just comparing the two McLaren team mates, we saw Jenson run a very large rear wing last year, this meant he was good in sector 2 and could still deploy his F-duct with some meaningful effect. The more downforce a car has, the less it slides and better it looks after it tyres in general terms, so this was a benefit too. Conversely, Lewis ran the opposite strategy. He went for a very small rear wing, in-fact so small that there was no point running the F-duct as the aerodynamics were more efficient with that concept taken away from the car. If he had of nailed a perfect lap in qualifying, he probably would have been on pole, but his car was sliding around much more and he made a few mistakes. He took more of a lottery. In the race, we will never know how he would have fared, but, he would have benefited from a higher top speed. Finally, remember the F-duct could be used throughout the whole race, unlike the DRS.

Now going onto the DRS (in 2011), it can only be used freely in qualifying and then at certain points in the race, when behind. This creates a much bigger headache for gear ratios, etc. As with the F-duct though, the DRS becomes less effective with smaller rear wings as there is less drag to get rid of. Also remember Button's strategy was much more workable last year as the F-duct could be used freely throughout the race from any position, compared to the DRS opposite from this year. One can therefore look at the GP from 2 different perspectives:-

1. Qualifying - running a larger rear wing will be better over a single lap. The DRS will be more powerful than with a smaller rear wing and therefore the car will essentially be getting rid of the same amount of drag but will have more downforce for the corners.

2. Race - running a larger rear wing will mean in general that a car will be more vulnerable on the straights in the race. DRS cannot be deployed freely during a race and therefore defending from cars behind is more difficult. Saying this, running more downforce could protect the tyres and become beneficial in this respect. It would also allow for better corner entry and exit. Running the smaller rear wing in the race looks however to be the better strategy for the race itself. It will mean that a car can attack and defend, irrelevant of the DRS. Tyre wear is not meant to be a huge factor at Monza either, with 2 stops expected to be the norm.

Conclusions - I believe that if any other car tried what McLaren is attempting then they would be "sitting ducks" in the race. Red Bull have no choice as to go with a tiny rear wing, because their car inherently produces a huge amount of downforce anyway and so all they want to do is get rid of it at Monza. What McLaren are clearly trying, and this theory seems backed up by all their PR over the last few days, is to qualify on pole and lead from the front. McLaren notoriously get a good top speed, with their Mercedes engine and their long wheel base car design. They also inherently struggle a little with rear downforce and so they don't like to give too much of it away. Their compromise is to run what should be a better qualifying strategy, secure pole position, and then run away with the race. So long as they can get a 2 or 3 second gap early on, they will be out of the DRS zone, should be able to look after their tyres better and will be a sure bet for the race. Equally, if they do indeed have the fastest race car, which they often have this year anyway, then even if they get overtaken, they should be able to get back into the DRS zone and deploy their DRS to overtake. I think they have qualified too many times behind the Red Bull's and been faster in the race but not been able to overtake. That is why I believe here, they are going for pole position for 3 reasons, as Tim Goss said in the Friday press conference:-

TG: "Yeah, it is a very complex optimisation exercise. Clearly you have got DRS all the time in qualifying but then in the race you have only got it when you are behind another car. We are looking for the best compromise of both raw speed in terms of lap time and tactical advantage to either defend or overtake other cars. I think you will see out there that there are a variety of solutions. We have put an awful lot of simulation effort into trying to pitch ours about right and I think we have got it right. Sunday will tell us whether we have or not but it is more than just chasing end of straight speed these days. It is about other things. As I said, tactical advantage, protecting tyres and qualifying pace, so it is a difficult job. We think we have got it right but Sunday will tell us one way or another."

The 3 reasons being "tactical advantage", "protecting tyres" and "qualifying pace". Being in-front in the race always helps tactics, as we have seen with Vettel at most races this year. The other 2 are rhetorical. I think he kind of sums up what I've been getting at with the McLaren tactics. They seem to have found some ways of reducing drag without having a tiny rear wing. As a McLaren fan. Let's hope both myself and Tim are right!

 

[Brogan]

Whilst I admire your optimism, Vettel will be on pole as usual.

 

[tranquility2k9]

Whilst I admire your optimism, Vettel will be on pole as usual.

It has to end sometime. McLaren could have had pole at the last 3 races. They lost out by a fraction in Germany, a mistake in Hungary and the weather lottery in Spa. They are due a pole. Red Bulls traditionally weakest track, could be the one.

 

[Jos the Boss]

Well I predicted Hammy on fantasy F1!

 

[MCLS]

Red Bulls traditionally weakest track, could be the one.

How many times have we said that this year? Canada, Germany, Monaco, Valencia..............

 

[riskitall]

Baring in mind the Soft tyres are meant to be between 0.8 and 1.2 seconds faster than the Medium tyre based on 2nd Practice times and Pirelli observation, Hamilton's FP1 time, even faster than Vettel's in FP2 was very impressive. Vettel was around 1.2 seconds quicker in FP2 than he was in FP1, however, surely the hotter conditions in FP2 were actually meaning lower overall times were set. In all honesty, it only looked like the McLaren's went backwards or "sandbagged" from FP1 - FP2 and therefore, either McLaren suffered more in the hot temperatures or they actually have a massive qualifying advantage here.

Vettel certainly seemed wary and Hamilton certainly seemed confident in their post-FP2 interviews. Whatever the case, there is no doubt that the cooler temperatures in FP1, with the harder tyre (notoriously more difficult to warm up) showed McLaren's and Hamilton's combined ability to be able to heat up tyres more quickly than any other car-driver combination on the grid. If F1 were ever to have a tyre that was difficult to warm up, whatever the conditions, then I think Hamilton would dominate.

Hamilton's naturally aggressive style can "sometimes" cause him problems with tyre wear, but time and time again he has shown that it gives him an "ace in the pack" in qualifying over a single lap. Just look at Hungary where he was able to get through to Q3 without using a single set of soft tyres. He was able to get the optimum out of the harder, prime compound on his first flying lap - no one else could. Quite incredibly really.

I really enjoy seeing the difference between Hamilton and Button and I hope they continue as team mates for a long time. What would be most fascinating would be if they had the best car throughout the season. Although I'd expect Hamilton to come out on top, I think we could see a battle royal. Both are great overtakers, but where Button fails Hamilton thrives and vice versa. Button needs a car to his liking whereas Hamilton can seemingly drive round anything. If they both had a great car though, Button would likely be tuned in, which is a formidable force against anyone (e.g. Brawn 2009). Hamilton gets heat into his tyres in qualifying and gets that advantage, where Button sometimes struggles, but Button can make his tyres last longer and make those cruicial tactical decisions himself that Lewis often gets let down on by his team.

I have to say, I believe both are great drivers, but I think Lewis is a bit more of the old-skool breed of F1 driver. Out of all drivers currently on the grid, I think Lewis could handle the massively different cars of the "olden days" when downforce and grip were constantly on the edge and drivers really had to throw a car round the track.

All in all, it should be fun tomorrow. I predict Hamilton and Button to occupy the first 2 slots on the grid. Believe me, McLaren are VERY fast here over a single lap. Red Bull are slower in the corners but also a match at best on the straights. They could catch up in the corners but then will be down in the straights. I've studied a lot of data and read various analysis to come to these conclusions, or should I say "opinions". I don't usually sit on the fence, but equally, I rarely make a bold statement unless im quite certain that it will come true.

Bring on qualifying.

i wouldnt say theyre both great overtakers.button is a good overtaker,but his overtakes are low risk,whereas hamiltons tend to be high risk which require more skill to pull off,and so they can go either way.for example,lots of buttons overtakes are when the drivers tyres are worn and so they are much slower,whereas lewis will go for the overtake even if your in a equally as fast car on good tyres.
i also think button is happy to finish 3rd or 4th,whereas lewis wants to win and so pushes harder for longer periods in the race which means higher tyre wear.lewis could easily drive the car within its limits for most of a race to save his tyres but that aint his style.
this season so far has been hamiltons worst and buttons best at mclaren,and yet theres only a 3 points difference.and now lewis number 1 goal is to beat jenson this season,i think he'll finish the season strongly.

 

[Quintessentially]

How many times have we said that this year? Canada, Germany, Monaco, Valencia..............

Monaco?

Anyway, i think Spa turned out as a bit of an unknown because of the extenuating factors, especially the timely intervention of the SC which played into their hands. Personally i think their weakness in these tracks has been overplayed and we know they are running aggressive cambers to alleviate some of the performance loss on low downforce tracks.