Grand Prix 2011 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The fat bloke lady is starting to sing

Sebastian Vettel took a major stride towards a second world championship after a crushing win in Belgium, he extended his lead over Mark Webber who made a good recovery from a bad start to finish second after a fantastic overtake on Fernando Alonso into Eau Rouge.

Lewis Hamiltons indifferent season continued after a crash with Kamui Kobayashi into Les Combes, while he won't admit it, he will be close to giving up on closing down Vettel as he is over 100 points behind, but while he can't win the championship, that won't stop him going to win every race remaining and with Monza being a strong McLaren track, he will be up there in the running.

Monza is one of the most historic tracks on the F1 calendar and will be full of Ferrari fans as it is the teams home race and the tifosi are known for their support of the prancing horse and after a Ferrari win in 2010 they willl be expecting more of the same from Fernando who needs a win to keep alive his fading championship hopes but an average showing in Spa including losing third place late on will be a killer blow to the Spaniard. Massa is sliding further into obscurity after a good start, but faded quickly into the minor points.

The track isn't one of Red Bulls strongest circuits due to the low downforce and long straights but we have said that a few circuits aren't Red Bull friendly circuits and Vettel has gone on to get pole and win and Monza might not be an exception with Vettel in imperious form and the car seemingly bulletproof there is no-one who can stop the bull racing to the title in emphatic fashion.

After a turbluent weekend, Pastor Maldanado picked up his first point in F1 with a strong drive to tenth (and a lot of luck) to give his beleagured Williams outfit a small reason to be happy but it represents how far they have fallen in that a point is an achievement for them. Barrichello finished a dissapointing 16th finishing behind both Lotus cars.

Bruno Senna will be aiming to improve on a promising first weekend back in F1, he qualified a brilliant 7th, but rusty racecraft caused a bad collision at turn 1 and he eventually finished 13th, the last of the unlapped cars, Petrov managed to pick up a handful of points to go level with his former team mate Nick Heidfeld who is seeking legal advice after losing his seat last week to the young Brazilian.

Adrian Sutil continues his upturn in form after outpacing Di Resta who had a poor weekend with the German taking home 7 points and Di Resta just finishing outside the points in 11th, with Nico Hulkenberg challenging for a set at Force India next season, both these two drivers have improved lately with both taking home points from the last few races
At the back of the field, Jarno Trulli finished ahead of his team-mate showing that maybe he still has some pace in the Lotus now that they have fixed the power steering issues, with Chandhok just over his shoulder he will need to beat his team-mate to ensure that he still has a seat at the team next year and extend his long career.

For Galahads supreme circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/autodromo-nazionale-monza/

 

[teabagyokel]

 

[Lewywo4]

Yeah, but it wasn’t for the curva grande block. Lewis will probably get his revenge, and hopefully the stewarding will be just as sensible.

Don't bet on it!

 

[Brogan]

Schumi should have had penalty for blocking in Monza - we blew it - Agh-

Derek Daly - Italian GP Steward, 2011

http://twitter.com/#!/DerekDaly500/status/113682785507606528

 

[FB]

Can't they give him a grid penalty for the next race or is this just Daly's opinion? Derek Daly, crap driver, crap steward. Ho hum...

 

[Brogan]

Race is finished.
I don't think penalties can be applied this late in the day without going to court, etc.

It's done and dusted now, but it's a shame he didn't do his job properly if that's what he thinks.

It's interesting that he has spoken out; that may put paid to any "the stewards haven't awarded a penalty therefore there was no rule broken" type arguments in future though

 

[Slyboogy]

The stewards weren't told to investigate, and it's his opinion I think FB

 

[Brogan]

The stewards don't need to be told to investigate though, as Charlie Whiting confirmed.

They can pro-actively investigate any incident, without being told to by Race Control.

 

[Tacitus]

Don't argue with the referee's decision brogan, lets move on.

 

[Slyboogy]

The stewards don't need to be told to investigate though, as Charlie Whiting confirmed.

They can pro-actively investigate any incident, without being told to by Race Control.

Then why come out in say that if they don't need to be told?

 

[Quintessentially]

It seems the matter was purely procedural. Even though the stewards were not told to investigate they can raise an investigation with the race director (i.e. Charlie) hence the following comments from Brundle

A steward told me after the race that he was very frustrated not to have been consulted during the race, particularly as he takes a very dim view of what he perceived as blocking.
I asked race director Charlie Whiting if the stewards can call up issues for themselves if they are not happy with something they see, and he said: "Absolutely".

Article 16 of F1 Sporting Regulations;

"Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by
any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which :

- necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41 ;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code ;
- caused a false start by one or more cars ;
- caused a collision ;
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

Unless in the opinion of the race director it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the
above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.

 

[Quintessentially]

Then why come out in say that if they don't need to be told?

Because as with a lot of F1 regulations, there is plenty ambiguity and typically written with a lot of cryptic language. No surprises here - Max was originally a lawyer by trade and probably drafted half of it himself. Perhaps Charlie should've consulted them before getting on the buzzer to Mercs?

 

[Vortex]

Cant help but feel if it had been the other way around (Lewis and Schumacher) then Lewis probably would have got a penalty and everyone on here who's saying Schumacher deserved one now would be saying Hamilton was unfairly penalised again!

Ps, no need to argue with me on this, just a feeling I get, not saying its true or accusing anyone of anything. No need to say anymore, don’t want to start a whole new debate on this feeling. lol

Its been done to death, dug back up and killed some more.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

If anyone remembers Spa a few years ago

Charlie advised McLaren that a driver had conformed with the rule and in his opinion was home free

The stewards chose to get involved and over ruled Charlie

And applied a penalty after the race was over

and now Charlie has the authority to not pass an incident on to the stewards?
and a steward complains he wasn't allowed to punish the guilty?

It's Lewis why argue, be surprised or debate it?

It's history

 

[Quintessentially]

In all fairness there was a lot of external influence ala Max back then and Charlie was effectively working with his hands tied (maybe that was a good thing?). In this case, I think for the avoidance of doubt and also for consistency, he should've simply referred it to the stewards before taking unilateral action. If Derek Daly felt that strongly about it, he should've queried the decision but you get the feeling doing so would've denied him any future opportunity of re-appearing on the panel.

 

[Brogan]

everyone on here who's saying Schumacher deserved one now would be saying Hamilton was unfairly penalised again!

Well they'd be right!

 

[Cookinflatsix]

In all fairness there was a lot of external influence ala Max back then and Charlie was effectively working with his hands tied

Max always liked to tie peoples hands up, like Donelly

However Charlie escaped FIA bondage when Max left,

but has only now chosen to apply common sense instead of referring everything to the stewards?

 

[The Pits]

There is a precedent. Malaysia this year where. Lewis got a 20 second penalty for far less than Michael was doing. I thought that a robust defence, which I enjoyed was spoiled by a couple of incidents which were unecessarily controversial.

As for the rules about how to enforce the rules, how ridiculous. One area where there should be no ambiguity at all. it seems almost like no one knows whos job it is to do what.

How hard can it be?

Anyway, I think the race has rubber stamped this years championships. Disappointing, but inevitable.

 

[Fenderman]

I think this confirms the status of the " ex-driver advisor" on the stewards panel. Only "power" seems to be to "influence" and then put up or shut up.

 

[F1ang-o]

Because as with a lot of F1 regulations, there is plenty ambiguity and typically written with a lot of cryptic language. No surprises here - Max was originally a lawyer by trade and probably drafted half of it himself. Perhaps Charlie should've consulted them before getting on the buzzer to Mercs?

Does anyone know if Whitmarsh got on the buzzer & robustly complained about the treatment a Mclaren driver was getting from Schumi
I don't think MW mentioned it in the after race Forum.
Had Lewis been driving for RBR....Christian Horner I'm sure would have been furious if it was either of their drivers...as would Ferrari's Stephano.Dominicallo if it was FA or FM

 

[Road of Bones]

Overhead on McLaren Intercom during Monza GP...

RD: Martin? I find myself extremely disenchanted by the overly-robust rebuffing of biomaton no.1 by the Silver-that-was-once-Red Baron during the current phase of the Motor-Race. I therefore require that you contact the Race Director forthwith and protest strenuously against such tactics...
MW: pffft...crackle...ssss...at did you say..tfff...Ron?
RD: Martin? Martin?? There appears to be unwarranted interference with our radio telecommunications - can you hear me?
MW: tsssst...crackle...orry? Ron?
RD: (exasperated) Martin?? By all that's clean and orderly - what in Ayrton's name is going on? I demand a fault diagnostic immediately!

A minion scurries off and returns on lap 17 looking nervous...

RD: Well? Have you traced the fault in the intercom yet?
Minion: er...yessir! Fault traced and undergoing repair sir!
RD: Excellent. And the reason for the fault...?
Minion: er...waste bodily fluid shorting out the batteries in the main intercom server sir!
RD: (reddens) JJJOOHHHN BBUUTTTTONNNNN!!!