Grand Prix 2011 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The fat bloke lady is starting to sing

Sebastian Vettel took a major stride towards a second world championship after a crushing win in Belgium, he extended his lead over Mark Webber who made a good recovery from a bad start to finish second after a fantastic overtake on Fernando Alonso into Eau Rouge.

Lewis Hamiltons indifferent season continued after a crash with Kamui Kobayashi into Les Combes, while he won't admit it, he will be close to giving up on closing down Vettel as he is over 100 points behind, but while he can't win the championship, that won't stop him going to win every race remaining and with Monza being a strong McLaren track, he will be up there in the running.

Monza is one of the most historic tracks on the F1 calendar and will be full of Ferrari fans as it is the teams home race and the tifosi are known for their support of the prancing horse and after a Ferrari win in 2010 they willl be expecting more of the same from Fernando who needs a win to keep alive his fading championship hopes but an average showing in Spa including losing third place late on will be a killer blow to the Spaniard. Massa is sliding further into obscurity after a good start, but faded quickly into the minor points.

The track isn't one of Red Bulls strongest circuits due to the low downforce and long straights but we have said that a few circuits aren't Red Bull friendly circuits and Vettel has gone on to get pole and win and Monza might not be an exception with Vettel in imperious form and the car seemingly bulletproof there is no-one who can stop the bull racing to the title in emphatic fashion.

After a turbluent weekend, Pastor Maldanado picked up his first point in F1 with a strong drive to tenth (and a lot of luck) to give his beleagured Williams outfit a small reason to be happy but it represents how far they have fallen in that a point is an achievement for them. Barrichello finished a dissapointing 16th finishing behind both Lotus cars.

Bruno Senna will be aiming to improve on a promising first weekend back in F1, he qualified a brilliant 7th, but rusty racecraft caused a bad collision at turn 1 and he eventually finished 13th, the last of the unlapped cars, Petrov managed to pick up a handful of points to go level with his former team mate Nick Heidfeld who is seeking legal advice after losing his seat last week to the young Brazilian.

Adrian Sutil continues his upturn in form after outpacing Di Resta who had a poor weekend with the German taking home 7 points and Di Resta just finishing outside the points in 11th, with Nico Hulkenberg challenging for a set at Force India next season, both these two drivers have improved lately with both taking home points from the last few races
At the back of the field, Jarno Trulli finished ahead of his team-mate showing that maybe he still has some pace in the Lotus now that they have fixed the power steering issues, with Chandhok just over his shoulder he will need to beat his team-mate to ensure that he still has a seat at the team next year and extend his long career.

For Galahads supreme circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/autodromo-nazionale-monza/

 

[tranquility2k9]

I have to say, watching those latest video replays from 3 different angles. Vettel's overtake on Alonso was stunning. Absolutely stunning. I still do not think he has the race craft of quite a few of the other drivers, but this move proves he has the guts and determination to learn and surpass them.

 

[Brogan]

Having watched the Alonso-Vettel footage again, the head on shot shows that Alonso didn't crowd Vettel at all.
In fact it was Vettel who put himself onto the grass.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Having watched the Alonso-Vettel footage again, the head on shot shows that Alonso didn't crowd Vettel at all.
In fact it was Vettel who put himself onto the grass.

I agree. It's the sort of move that in anything other than a Red Bull would have wiped him out. It shows just how much confidence he has in his car. A little too much in this instance. What, did he expect Alonso to get off his line and just open the door.

The difference is that Schumacher got off his line and shut the door. It's lucky that Hamilton was expecting that. Or at least half expecting it.

 

[tranquility2k9]

Having watched the Alonso-Vettel footage again, the head on shot shows that Alonso didn't crowd Vettel at all.
In fact it was Vettel who put himself onto the grass.

I agree with that now too completely, so Alonso was very fair, like he generally is to be honest, for all his McLaren 2007 reputation, he is a fair racing driver.

I still think it was a great, ambitious and skilled overtake from Vettel though, although only the RB7 could have made that overtake stick. Any other car would have crashed. Key point.

 

[Brogan]

Not disputing the overtake at all t2kp, it was a ballsy pass.
I was expecting Vettel to spear off halfway through it when I watched it during the race; you could see the back end step out slightly as the left side wheels lost traction.

But Alonso's line and behaviour was a world apart from Schumacher's move on Hamilton; I don't think the two can be compared at all.

 

[tranquility2k9]

Not disputing the overtake at all t2kp, it was a ballsy pass.
I was expecting Vettel to spear off halfway through it when I watched it during the race; you could see the back end step out slightly as the left side wheels lost traction.

But Alonso's line and behaviour was a world apart from Schumacher's move on Hamilton; I don't think the two can be compared at all.

Agree

 

[Vortex]

Having watched the Alonso-Vettel footage again, the head on shot shows that Alonso didn't crowd Vettel at all.
In fact it was Vettel who put himself onto the grass.

Hmmm, pause the video at 30.5 seconds in, it was tight!

 

[Lewywo4]

I loved the good hard racing, I don’t think Lewis was as cautious as we think, he was more cautious than usual yes but he was still trying hard.. but Schumacher fights back hard, very hard.

Although I became frustrated by some of Michael's defensive moves against Hamilton.....but.....I also was gratified that Lewis demonstrated some patience, in order to eventually pass Schumacher.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I still think it was a great, ambitious and skilled overtake from Vettel though, although only the RB7 could have made that overtake stick. Any other car would have crashed. Key point.

That's the confidence Newey downforce gives you and Seb knows intuitively now what's possible

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Hmmm, pause the video at 30.5 seconds in, it was tight!

Yep. Alonso was in front and on the racing line. Vettel was risking a lot with that move. Good job Alonso has been a very fair driver of late in these situations.

Now if you take that still and say that it was Alonso overtaking, it would be a very different matter.

 

[Dario Resta]

Alonso was just taking the racing line. I don't think he expected Vettel to make it stick round the outside. Schumacher just plain chopped Lewis with irrefutable intention.

You have to admit that Vettel was pulling a very cheeky move round the outside of Alonso. I think Vettel is lucky he didn't put himself in the wall with such an audacious move. It could have gone very wrong for him. Great entertainment, nevertheless, but if he'd took himself out of the race I would have laid the blame at his door.

Schumacher's move was not entertaining. It was downright dangerous and very much, as coulthard said, outside the boundaries of sportsmanly conduct.

Schumacher took his line early, granted, but that's fair enough defending a position. He didn't move more than once, and Lewis was never even close to alongside. Alonso on Vettel was much worse, and the consequences of those two touching would have been far worse than Lewis and Schumacher. Lewis trying up the inside was cheeky. You can't pass there unless the guy in front is massively slower, and you certainly won't do it to Schumacher.

Schumacher's move before the Lesmos was possibly questionable, but the rest was just hard, fair racing. If the two moves (Alonso / Vettel and Schumacher / Hamilton) were reversed, would your opinion still be the same? I would be far more critical of Schumacher if he'd done what Alonso did to Vettel.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Schumacher took his line early, granted, but that's fair enough defending a position. He didn't move more than once, and Lewis was never even close to alongside. Alonso on Vettel was much worse, and the consequences of those two touching would have been far worse than Lewis and Schumacher. Lewis trying up the inside was cheeky. You can't pass there unless the guy in front is massively slower, and you certainly won't do it to Schumacher.

Schumacher's move before the Lesmos was possibly questionable, but the rest was just hard, fair racing. If the two moves (Alonso / Vettel and Schumacher / Hamilton) were reversed, would your opinion still be the same? I would be far more critical of Schumacher if he'd done what Alonso did to Vettel.

Please refer to Brogan's earlier quotation of the rules and specifically the bit in bold text. Nobody is suggesting that in this instance he moved more than once. Certainly not me.

If it were the other way round, I think Schumacher would have lost his front wing and Hamilton would have ended up in the wall with him.

I don't think Alonso did anything to Vettel. I think Vettel tried a very risky pass and was lucky to get away with it and make it stick. Alonso simply stayed on his line and in fact gave Vettel quarter that he really had no right to.

Those are my unchanging opinions on all those three accounts. I don't want to get into the dangerous territory of repeating myself so I'll let that be my statement on the matters unless another aspect pops up that I feel I can add to.

 

[Vortex]

lol, thought you was about to say "cheers" then.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

lol, thought you was about to say "cheers" then.

I nearly did. Had to stop myself. That joke is a bit worn out though and we've had enough of that today.

 

[Vortex]

Just a comparison of both, to be fair, cant show one not the other.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Just a comparison of both, to be fair, cant show one not the other.

Blimey. How Lewis got himself out of that one beggars's belief. That looks seriously scary. What the hell was Schumacher thinking? I wonder if he's seen that. Definitely worthy of a slap.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Looks like it's Schumacher who's squeezing Hamilton more than Alonso did to Vettel, and yet Schumi gets away with it.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

At least Hamilton didn't get a penalty for moving around in front of Button, by cutting his speed and getting pushed on to the grass he allowed Button a clean pass

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Looks like it's Schumacher who's squeezing Hamilton more than Alonso did to Vettel, and yet Schumi gets away with it.

More than a squeeze. If Lewis didnt take evasive action that could have been horrific.

 

[Dario Resta]

Please refer to Brogan's earlier quotation of the rules and specifically the bit in bold text. Nobody is suggesting that in this instance he moved more than once. Certainly not me.

If it were the other way round, I think Schumacher would have lost his front wing and Hamilton would have ended up in the wall with him.

I don't think Alonso did anything to Vettel. I think Vettel tried a very risky pass and was lucky to get away with it and make it stick. Alonso simply stayed on his line and in fact gave Vettel quarter that he really had no right to.

Those are my unchanging opinions on all those three accounts. I don't want to get into the dangerous territory of repeating myself so I'll let that be my statement on the matters unless another aspect pops up that I feel I can add to.

Alonso gave Vettel as much room as Schumacher gave Hamilton, just enough not to collide. Thanks, I read Brogan's quote from the rules. Deliberate crowding? Schumacher was no more guilty than Alonso (assuming both Schumacher & Alonso saw the other driver), both put the other on the grass, and both Lewis and Vettel could have backed out of the move. I take it you mean that Lewis would have chopped Schumacher even more (to cost Schumacher a front wing & put Lewis in the wall)?

Feel free to repeat yourself as much as you like, it's a free country.