Grand Prix 2011 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The fat bloke lady is starting to sing

Sebastian Vettel took a major stride towards a second world championship after a crushing win in Belgium, he extended his lead over Mark Webber who made a good recovery from a bad start to finish second after a fantastic overtake on Fernando Alonso into Eau Rouge.

Lewis Hamiltons indifferent season continued after a crash with Kamui Kobayashi into Les Combes, while he won't admit it, he will be close to giving up on closing down Vettel as he is over 100 points behind, but while he can't win the championship, that won't stop him going to win every race remaining and with Monza being a strong McLaren track, he will be up there in the running.

Monza is one of the most historic tracks on the F1 calendar and will be full of Ferrari fans as it is the teams home race and the tifosi are known for their support of the prancing horse and after a Ferrari win in 2010 they willl be expecting more of the same from Fernando who needs a win to keep alive his fading championship hopes but an average showing in Spa including losing third place late on will be a killer blow to the Spaniard. Massa is sliding further into obscurity after a good start, but faded quickly into the minor points.

The track isn't one of Red Bulls strongest circuits due to the low downforce and long straights but we have said that a few circuits aren't Red Bull friendly circuits and Vettel has gone on to get pole and win and Monza might not be an exception with Vettel in imperious form and the car seemingly bulletproof there is no-one who can stop the bull racing to the title in emphatic fashion.

After a turbluent weekend, Pastor Maldanado picked up his first point in F1 with a strong drive to tenth (and a lot of luck) to give his beleagured Williams outfit a small reason to be happy but it represents how far they have fallen in that a point is an achievement for them. Barrichello finished a dissapointing 16th finishing behind both Lotus cars.

Bruno Senna will be aiming to improve on a promising first weekend back in F1, he qualified a brilliant 7th, but rusty racecraft caused a bad collision at turn 1 and he eventually finished 13th, the last of the unlapped cars, Petrov managed to pick up a handful of points to go level with his former team mate Nick Heidfeld who is seeking legal advice after losing his seat last week to the young Brazilian.

Adrian Sutil continues his upturn in form after outpacing Di Resta who had a poor weekend with the German taking home 7 points and Di Resta just finishing outside the points in 11th, with Nico Hulkenberg challenging for a set at Force India next season, both these two drivers have improved lately with both taking home points from the last few races
At the back of the field, Jarno Trulli finished ahead of his team-mate showing that maybe he still has some pace in the Lotus now that they have fixed the power steering issues, with Chandhok just over his shoulder he will need to beat his team-mate to ensure that he still has a seat at the team next year and extend his long career.

For Galahads supreme circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/autodromo-nazionale-monza/

 

[f1fansp]

I think he means the BBC forum? I don't know, I can't watch it, but I doubt he means CTA.

Yup, my error.

 

[Brogan]

Liuzzi has been reprimanded and handed a 5 place grid penalty at the Singapore GP.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Liuzzi has been reprimanded and handed a 5 place grid penalty at the Singapore GP.

Oh dear, I've just had to get off the floor. You should have warned me before telling a joke.

 

[Brogan]

 

[f1fansp]

Are they taking the piss with that penalty?
So what's 5 places back from ... erm the back row?

 

[Vortex]

Liuzzi has been reprimanded and handed a 5 place grid penalty at the Singapore GP.

So does that mean 5 empty starting spots between him and 23rd then? lol

 

[Brogan]

What else would you have them do?
Cut off an arm?

A 5 place grid drop is the standard penalty in this situation.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I think a 5 place grid penalty is inappropriate given where the HRT is likely to qualify.

What else would you have them do?

The penalty for him should be "Starting From The Pit Lane". That would give the tailenders a handful of seconds on him. I think that's "fair".

 

[Josh]

I started watching F1 when James Hunt was driving...prob before you were born?

Surely you know that looking at your teammates' telemetry is common practice, then? I don't see why you would bring that up?
And yes, it was before I was born

Not a prob..tho..what I meant was ...JB...now trying do a LH..& visa versa ..doesn't work...please leave LEWIS to do what he does best..go for it at the first corner etc....

I think JB trying to do a LH worked out pretty well for him this race, with him finishing second and all that.

 

[Vortex]

I agree with Brogan, it’s the standard penalty, just funny given there normal starting places.

 

[F1ang-o]

Surely you know that looking at your teammates' telemetry is common practice, then? I don't see why you would bring that up?
And yes, it was before I was born

I think JB trying to do a LH worked out pretty well for him this race, with him finishing second and all that.

I can only agree with that Josh....
What me off is people saying Lewis ought to learn from JB etc...& what JB is doing is learning from LH. Why do you think he is suddenly getting to be a better driver?......... since he has been at Macca.........

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

See Ray I'd value your opinion more if you were willing to except drivers you don't like can have good races.

Well, what can I say?

Schumacher had an excellent race. His best, in my opinion, since his comeback.

This time he actually mixed it up with the Big Boys at the Sharp End and held his own.

He fought one of the 2 best drivers on the grid (Hamilton) absoultely tooth and nail and gave no quarter and asked for no quarter in return.

His fans will say he "schooled" Lewis while Lewis' fans will say that Schuey was being slightly dirty at a moment in history in which Lewis was being 'super'/'uber' clean.

I say that was exciting racing!

For Schumacher to finish 5th was a terrific achievement and it'll be hard to duplicate that on the rest of the circuits where terminal speed and low downforce settings won't be the be all and end all as at Monza.

I must say this, however:

Shumi should send Webber a nice Christmas Card for disentagling Massa's Ferrari and his own RBR from 5th and 6th!

Anyway, Schuey was very good value for money today.

Shame that Tonio decided to wipe out Nico and Vitaly in one go from such far down the grid.

Oh well, that's racing.

 

[tranquility2k9]

I'm a bit confused by various people who criticise Hamilton for being too aggressive and say he needs to just hold back and be a little more careful, then when we have a race and he is more careful, suddenly he's getting criticised for that. He really can't do anything right at the moment.

I don't buy into this whole thing of Jenson pulling off the overtakes and Lewis not. By the time Jenson overtook Schumacher, he was in a position that Lewis was never able to get his car in into Ascari. Schumacher's tyres had truely gone at that point, hence why he pitted that same lap. Lewis was very unfortunate to lose his position due to Schumacher being too aggressive with his defending and putting him onto the grass. If he'd of held that position then he would have been able to pit first for new tyres and it would have been Hamilton in 2nd and not Button. Hamilton got stuck behind Schumacher again after the pit stops if you remember, which is why he fell behind Button by about 8 or 9 seconds.

I think the problem with Hamilton at the moment is because he is under so much criticism, is clearly feeling the heat and seems to get blamed for more than others, the other drivers are latching onto this and are more aggressive with him and give him less room than they do any other driver. I'm pretty sure Button has made some overtakes recently that if Hamilton had of tried, he would have ended up crashing. I know you make your own reputation, but I honestly just think this whole season has been a little harsh on Hamilton. He has made a few mistakes, but it just seems as though everything is against him in one way or another. He has been let down by some poor strategy decisions by his team, like at Monaco, Silverstone and Hungary, for example.

All in all, the McLarens seemed better on pace than Vettel once in free air, although Vettel was probably cruising, but it certainly suggests they may have been a match for him if they had of got away clean off the line and certainly if they had of got past him at the start. It makes such a different having a gap at the front - for example, say Hamilton got in the lead at the start and Vettel got stuck behind another car for a few laps, im sure Hamilton would have got a healthy lead and would have had a great chance of victory.

All due credit to Vettel though, another great race and a great overtake on Alonso. I think it's a bit soon to be comparing him to Hamilton and Alonso though, let alone Senna, but that is my opinion. Having a car that is on pole for every race of the season means you have a very dominant car. Lewis has never had such a dominant car in his career and Alonso, not throughout a whole season. Hopefully McLaren and Ferrari will be closer at the high downforce tracks. In a strange way Red Bull now seem better on the lower downforce tracks and don't have such an advantage at places like Hungary.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

All due credit to Vettel though, another great race and a great overtake on Schumacher.

You mean Alonso. Yes, that was a real treat for racing fans. Fantastic!

I think it's a bit soon to be comparing him to Hamilton and Alonso though, let alone Senna, but that is my opinion.

I don't think these people think Hamilton and Alonso are the benchmark anymore, frankly.

But you're 100 percent right in that it's way too early to start comparing him to Senna.

We'll need to look at it 5 years from now as it could still change a lot. We could have 3 or 4 drivers being at the forefront of Grand Prix racing for some years...and it could all change depending on who is driving what.

 

[Jos the Boss]

Oh you mean, mean person

I'm not mean i could of said 10 seconds

 

[F1ang-o]

I'm a bit confused by various people who criticise Hamilton for being too aggressive and say he needs to just hold back and be a little more careful, then when we have a race and he is more careful, suddenly he's getting criticised for that. He really can't do anything right at the moment.

I don't buy into this whole thing of Jenson pulling off the overtakes and Lewis not. By the time Jenson overtook Schumacher, he was in a position that Lewis was never able to get his car in into Ascari. Schumacher's tyres had truely gone at that point, hence why he pitted that same lap. Lewis was very unfortunate to lose his position due to Schumacher being too aggressive with his defending and putting him onto the grass. If he'd of held that position then he would have been able to pit first for new tyres and it would have been Hamilton in 2nd and not Button. Hamilton got stuck behind Schumacher again after the pit stops if you remember, which is why he fell behind Button by about 8 or 9 seconds.

I think the problem with Hamilton at the moment is because he is under so much criticism, is clearly feeling the heat and seems to get blamed for more than others, the other drivers are latching onto this and are more aggressive with him and give him less room than they do any other driver. I'm pretty sure Button has made some overtakes recently that if Hamilton had of tried, he would have ended up crashing. I know you make your own reputation, but I honestly just think this whole season has been a little harsh on Hamilton. He has made a few mistakes, but it just seems as though everything is against him in one way or another. He has been let down by some poor strategy decisions by his team, like at Monaco, Silverstone and Hungary, for example.

All in all, the McLarens seemed better on pace than Vettel once in free air, although Vettel was probably cruising, but it certainly suggests they may have been a match for him if they had of got away clean off the line and certainly if they had of got past him at the start. It makes such a different having a gap at the front - for example, say Hamilton got in the lead at the start and Vettel got stuck behind another car for a few laps, im sure Hamilton would have got a healthy lead and would have had a great chance of victory.

All due credit to Vettel though, another great race and a great overtake on Alonso. I think it's a bit soon to be comparing him to Hamilton and Alonso though, let alone Senna, but that is my opinion. Having a car that is on pole for every race of the season means you have a very dominant car. Lewis has never had such a dominant car in his career and Alonso, not throughout a whole season. Hopefully McLaren and Ferrari will be closer at the high downforce tracks. In a strange way Red Bull now seem better on the lower downforce tracks and don't have such an advantage at places like Hungary.

You are absolutely right..... IMO........ on all counts/observations...but Lewis does not seem to have his team behind him...they are jb bound.
Lewis cannot be what he isn't....let him be.........he will deliver.......just watch out for those who will put him out...& what their goal is...
IMO Vettel is great...he has team support to get him thru.......
Macca have the car...& LH.....dominate for the races left?
Button has that support from Whitmarsh....who has Lewis got?

 

[riskitall]

Yee god's and little fishes! Vettel wins, Button drives a stormer, Fernando made the Tifosi happy, Schumie look more like the driver of old and all you lot want to do is bitch about how "unfair" it was for Lewis Hamilton. The car wasn't quick enough, Lewis wasn't on his game (look how easily JB passed Schumie) so get over it, this is getting REALLY dull.

i dont agree completly.i think all the work wearing schumacher down was done by lewis,then schumachers tyres started to go,lewis got pushed out onto the grass,which allowed button to pass him,then it was easy for button to get past schumacher.
i think lewis drove well,but being held up by schumacher twice is what cost him.especially the second time.

 

[riskitall]

You are absolutely right..... IMO........ on all counts/observations...but Lewis does not seem to have his team behind him...they are jb bound.
Lewis cannot be what he isn't....let him be.........he will deliver.......just watch out for those who will put him out...& what their goal is...
IMO Vettel is great...he has team support to get him thru.......
Macca have the car...& LH.....dominate for the races left?
Button has that support from Whitmarsh....who has Lewis got?

the thing that really annoyed me was when brundle brought up the whole thing about button believing he's the team leader now.

 

[F1ang-o]

???? Is that meant to be ironic?

NO

 

[Jos the Boss]

Overtake of the day? Schumi on Hammy L13 at the curva grande!
Vettels was good aswell but that was completed at the chicane