Grand Prix 2011 British Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

In a case of after the lord Mayor's show, we are back to square one after Valencia served up another placid race with the same result - A Sebastian Vettel victory. Some people reckon that the championship will be decided at Silverstone as if Red Bull still win despite the EBD ban, that is the championship over and done with for this season, and it's hard to argue with that considering Vettel has only dropped 14 points so far this season after 6 wins and 2 second places, not even Schumacher in his 2002/2004 pomp started a season like that.

So we go to a circuit where 3 drivers hold as their home grand prix, lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button and Paul Di Resta, but the Mclaren pair go into their home race in low spirits after their update package failed to get them closer to Red Bull on a circuit where Red Bull were supposedly weaker at than other tracks, a feeling that has been reflected across the paddock with Alonso admitting that the championship was virtually over and it would be more productive to focus on 2012 and 2013.

Silverstone has recieved a massive redevelopment as part of the 17 year contract it recieved when Donnington couldn't come up with the goods to stage a British Grand Prix and the new addition this year is the pit lane complex which looks stunning and has really elevated Silverstone into the 21st century as one of the elite grand prix facilities, (and certainly one to show off to the other countries when they come here )

With the rule changes this could be the most unpredictable race of the season however, as we saw in Valencia, if anyone can adapt to rule changes, it's Red Bull, Adrian Newey has often been able to pull a rabbit out of a hat when the chips are down so don't be surprised to see Vettel take his seventh win of what has been a remarkable season for the young German who has swept all before him and is now walking towards his second World Championships and joining the select few who have won back to back Championships.

It's been a curious couple of weeks for Ferrari, off the pace and then suddenly back on it in Valencia and once again (like Turkey) they are the second fastest team again when the car is in the hands of Alonso (although Massa didn't exactly have a bad race himself)

Further down the grid at Toro Rosso, Alguesari has proven a point to his critics after a points finish at his home race and his second points finish in a row, and if he wants to keep his race seat there, he needs more of where that came from as Ricciardo is no slouch and will want the second seat at Toro Rosso next year. Even Sutil in the Force India shrugged off his critics to beat his team mate to claim a handful of points to relieve the pressure on his shoulders, albiet for only a short while.

For Galahads superb circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/silverstone-circuit/

 

[KekeTheKing]

I am expecting lots of fines for Lewis, maybe for having been backed by Mclaren at an early age

I thought I saw ol' Nige standing out there at pit entrance with a radar gun and a notepad, studiously checking Lewis' speeds upon entry.

 

[tranquility2k9]

I don't think Red Bull were using off-throttle exhausts anymore than 50% before these new regs came in, they might even have been doing it less! The point is that what this now means is that Red Bull will effectively not have to change anything, whilst all the other teams will lose performance to them. I actually expect an even bigger performance margin and whereas RB were likely to have about 6 - 8 tenths advantage in qualfying at this track, it will now likely be much more than that.

Well done FIA.

Here's what Whitmarsh says on it:-

Meanwhile Whitmarsh responded: “I think there’s been about six technical directives on the subject so far, and it’s moved around, and when the goalposts are moving partway through a practice session it makes it quite difficult. With the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better to make changes at year end, with which I think Christian will agree.

“To do this and do it in a fairly cloudy and ambiguous and changing way I think inevitably in a competitive environment every team feels it’s been hard done by. At the moment I think potentially lot of times will end up making arguments to cold blow. Renault have been in that domain for some time, other teams haven’t, and don’t have that experience. We’re talking a very substantial performance benefit here.”

Whitmarsh says that adjustment of the rules should have been saved for next season.
“The intention people believed was that we were going to stop exhaust blowing when the driver didn’t have his foot on the throttle. I think that was the simple concept, but that concept has been deflected, and therefore, it hasn’t been clear. And the fact that these things were only coming out in the course of today is fairly extraordinary.

“I’m sure we’ll remain calm and pick our eay through, but I think it’s probably better to make changes to the regulations between seasons and not in-season, and also make changes to regulations which are clear and unambiguous.

“Clearly at the moment a lot of people are feeling emotional about the situation and I can understand why. It’s frustrating for the engineers not to know what is it we are allowed to do, because by cold blowing your getting 30-40 points of extra rear downforce in braking, and that’s quite an attractive thing. If you can do it then you’re going to do it.”

 

[Brogan]

I don't think Red Bull were using off-throttle exhausts anymore than 50% before these new regs came in, they might even have been doing it less!

By all accounts they were using up to 90%.

 

[tooncheese]

Surprised at Mercedes performance, and Massa not spinning. However the rain blurs the lines somewhat. Anyone else notice Kobyashi's suspension breaking a fraction before he hit the wall? Seems like the small lateral force of the dirt force was enough to break it off. Also nice save Nico

 

[KekeTheKing]

"And the fact that these things were only coming out in the course of today is fairly extraordinary."
-Martin Whitmarsh

And here we have it. This is the very crux of the issue today. RBR/Renault decided they would wait until the actual event started before putting the FIA in an impossible position. Other teams would have planned accordingly for the rule "clarification", while RBR/Renault did very little, with the knowledge that they could pull the trump card and force the FIA to walk back the reduction on EBD/Driver Aids.

When this is all sorted out, RBR/Renault are going to appear even shadier than they do right now. They want everyone to believe they are seriously disadvantaged by their normal engine performance, and that they would suffer reliability issues if made to run the engine in a normal fashion.

Pathetic, pathetic show by the FIA today.

 

[tranquility2k9]

By all accounts they were using up to 90%.

No Brogan, it is Lotus Renault F1 with the front facing exhausts that were using up to 90%. Initially people were saying Red Bull had the same extremely high % because of their superior performance in general, but then more recently it has come out that they use more like 30 - 60% max. I've seen it written in several places. I know it was mentioned in the tech part of Autosport Magazine.

 

[sportsman]

http://twitter.com/#!/scarbsf1


@ScarbsF1 Craig Scarborough

Each team ran these maps pre-EBD so have been allowed to retain them, Renault 50% open throttle, Mercedes fired overrun (hot blowing)

 

[tranquility2k9]

And here we have it. This is the very crux of the issue today. RBR/Renault decided they would wait until the actual event started before putting the FIA in an impossible position. Other teams would have planned accordingly for the rule "clarification", while RBR/Renault did very little, with the knowledge that they could pull the trump card and force the FIA to walk back the reduction on EBD/Driver Aids.

When this is all sorted out, RBR/Renault are going to appear even shadier than they do right now. They want everyone to believe they are seriously disadvantaged by their normal engine performance, and that they would suffer reliability issues if made to run the engine in a normal fashion.

Pathetic, pathetic show by the FIA today.

I agree completely with everything you've just said. I really do believe RBR have done this to gain an advantage in the circumstances, even if they didn't want the rules changing in the first place. But then again, McLaren and Ferrari and several other teams haven't come out and said they wanted the rules changing themselves!

 

[KekeTheKing]

"Each team ran these maps pre-EBD so have been allowed to retain them, Renault 50% open throttle, Mercedes fired overrun (hot blowing)"
-Scarbs

Didn't realize specific car attributes could be "grandfathered" in. Pity that excuse didn't work for the "Double Decker Diffuser" or the "F-Duct". Just imagine if McLaren were allowed to retain the F-Duct last year while it was banned for everyone else. Because I can't.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

So what does the rule book say specifically about the different engines? If you have a Renault then you can have 50% throttle but if you've got a Merc sorry. Interesting that no-one knows how Ferrari will fair.

 

[Slyboogy]

Ferrari will be using 275% so I heard...

 

[tranquility2k9]

Ok here it is on Autosport:-

"Amid ongoing discussions between engine manufacturers and the governing body about how much teams are allowed to continue blowing their exhausts, Red Bull Racing's supplier Renault has been allowed to keep 50 per cent of its exhaust flow when the driver is off throttle because of reliability reasons.

The original intention had been to limit teams to just 10 per cent - but that was then increased marginally to 20 per cent at 18,000rpm after preliminary discussions with teams.

However, following lobbying from Renault, the engine manufacturer argued that it needed even more throttle use for engine reliability related to the exhaust valves.

The new limit was agreed as late as Friday morning, and it counters a concession handed to rival Mercedes-Benz ahead of Silverstone - which has been allowed to keep firing half its cylinders as engine over run in a bid to ease crank case pressure.
The FIA's decision has provided a dramatic twist to the blown diffuser saga, and could have significant implications on the competitive order because it is understood that Red Bull Racing had only been running at 45 per cent throttle flow before the rules clarification was made by the FIA."

So basically Red Bull will lose none of their performance whatsoever, I wonder why it needed to be at that 50% mark? What a fricken joke. All they've done by changing the regs is actually kept them the same for the leading team in the WDC and hampered their main rivals.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

The whole thing is ridiculous

Either off throttle blowing is illegal and against the rules or it isn't,

'sorry guv, I now know murder is illegal but I was brought up to think that it wasn't and my health would suffer if i stop''

'oh, ok, in that case carry on son, but don't murder anyone you are related to'

 

[Brogan]

Game, set and match to Red Bull it would seem.

The FIA win the award for shooting yourself in the foot with a bazooka and blowing it off at the shoulder.

 

[sportsman]

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2011/Pages/cw-qa.aspx What are the new operating conditions with regard to throttle-opening and spark?

We only want to target this one specific issue – what we think is illegal use of maps for aero reasons. We don't want to influence the perfectly legitimate systems on the car – engine braking for example. We're happy for them to use that, but we want to be sure it isn't being abused.

We're saying that if a driver comes off the throttle – zero pedal – then the throttles have got to be [maximum] 10 per cent open at 12,000rpm and [maximum] 20 per cent open at 18,000rpm.

One engine manufacturer is asking for a little bit more – for what appear to be genuine reasons. We have the ability to go back on this particular point, to look at 2009 maps, when [teams] did not have in place the exhausts that they have now. If they needed 28 per cent throttle in order to achieve 0Nm at 18,000rpm back then, then that would appear to be a perfectly reasonable request.

The engines haven't changed: they are homologated engines and identical to the ones we have used from 2007 onwards.

Similarly, we will look at any extreme use of ignition. We will know what the team used to do with regard to fuelling and ignition. If we see a clear imbalance then I think we will suspect it is being done for different reasons [other than delivering torque]. We haven't put clear limits, we haven't put plus or minus 20¡, for example, for a given torque demand. We have just said the set up that you use for fuelling and ignition must be normal for the demanded torque. We are looking for anything abnormal. I think that's the best we can do for the moment.

Does that mean there will not be blanket limits across all makes of engine?

A lot of it depends on engine architecture. For example, we have to be very careful not to disadvantage barrel throttles versus butterfly throttles, because they have a distinctly different way of working. In answer to the question, if it's clear that in 2009 one engine with a butterfly throttle only needed 15 per cent [at zero pedal] but another engine using a barrel throttle needed 20 per cent, we could make a distinction. We don't want to put a figure across the board which will affect one team in a different way to another.

 

[mjo]

I hope they show the coverage of that (whitmarsh and horner arguing) conference tomorrow on bbc show

(wooooooooooo 100th comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Imagine if RBR were a specialist in KERS like Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes...

Vettel would likely have won every race.

 

[FB]

The FIA team test firing a Bazooka

**CAUTION** Bad Language

 

[tranquility2k9]

Surely, surely, all the other engines should be allowed to have 50% off-throttle exhaust flow as well? Red Bull's argument is that hot-blowing done by Mercedes gains a bigger advantage and thus needs a lower %, but then when did this rule change become related to altering performance?

If Red Bull want to then they could "hot-blow" as well, the reason they haven't is because their car is so tightly packaged, it over-heats when hot-blowing.

The point is that if the rule is 50% for them and the other Renault teams, then surely it should be 50% for everyone. Teams like McLaren and Ferrari have invested in researching into hot-blowing and implementing it on the car. They've managed to get it working which is a complicated task, so if they want to hot-blow at 50% even (although that'd use up way too much fuel), then they should be allowed. Red Bull have admitted they were looking into hot-blowing and couldn't get it working to date. So by changing the regs how they now have, Red Bull keep all their performance via cold-blowing and the other big teams just lose out and only get to do minimally what they did before.

 

[FB]

I'm totally confused by the whole thing. If something is not allowed ban it. If it results in half, or more, of the grid not finishing, tough crap. If it's a rule enforce it, if it's not let them do what they want. This sort of wishy washy nonsense just gets right up my goat