Grand Prix 2011 British Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

In a case of after the lord Mayor's show, we are back to square one after Valencia served up another placid race with the same result - A Sebastian Vettel victory. Some people reckon that the championship will be decided at Silverstone as if Red Bull still win despite the EBD ban, that is the championship over and done with for this season, and it's hard to argue with that considering Vettel has only dropped 14 points so far this season after 6 wins and 2 second places, not even Schumacher in his 2002/2004 pomp started a season like that.

So we go to a circuit where 3 drivers hold as their home grand prix, lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button and Paul Di Resta, but the Mclaren pair go into their home race in low spirits after their update package failed to get them closer to Red Bull on a circuit where Red Bull were supposedly weaker at than other tracks, a feeling that has been reflected across the paddock with Alonso admitting that the championship was virtually over and it would be more productive to focus on 2012 and 2013.

Silverstone has recieved a massive redevelopment as part of the 17 year contract it recieved when Donnington couldn't come up with the goods to stage a British Grand Prix and the new addition this year is the pit lane complex which looks stunning and has really elevated Silverstone into the 21st century as one of the elite grand prix facilities, (and certainly one to show off to the other countries when they come here ;) )

With the rule changes this could be the most unpredictable race of the season however, as we saw in Valencia, if anyone can adapt to rule changes, it's Red Bull, Adrian Newey has often been able to pull a rabbit out of a hat when the chips are down so don't be surprised to see Vettel take his seventh win of what has been a remarkable season for the young German who has swept all before him and is now walking towards his second World Championships and joining the select few who have won back to back Championships.

It's been a curious couple of weeks for Ferrari, off the pace and then suddenly back on it in Valencia and once again (like Turkey) they are the second fastest team again when the car is in the hands of Alonso (although Massa didn't exactly have a bad race himself)

Further down the grid at Toro Rosso, Alguesari has proven a point to his critics after a points finish at his home race and his second points finish in a row, and if he wants to keep his race seat there, he needs more of where that came from as Ricciardo is no slouch and will want the second seat at Toro Rosso next year. Even Sutil in the Force India shrugged off his critics to beat his team mate to claim a handful of points to relieve the pressure on his shoulders, albiet for only a short while.

For Galahads superb circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/silverstone-circuit/
 
I know, I'm very sad :(

Btw, I didn't see too much mention of it here, but what happend to Renault? They just disappeared into the midfield it seems.
A casualty of the rule changes?

Heidfeld's always had issues getting heat into his tyres for one hot lap, which was magnified by the low track temperatures on saturday. Today he put in, as usual, a majestic drive from mediocrity to points and proved virtually impossible to overtake. God-like genius that he is.
 
Sitting in the rain in Silverstone is very character - building.
Very happy that my first live GP was this good, especially the changing weather conditions (heavy rain, cloud, strong sunshine & very hot), and the last-lap battles. Shame about the Red Bull team 'strategy' (team orders!!!)
Also, sat at Becketts GA today, can strongly recommend it to anybody! - good view from the end of Copse to halfway down the hangar straight, and part of the village complex. Obviously, the Becketts grandstand would be better, but I'm too poor!!!
 
Everyone on the terrace I was on, I am assuming that was a microcosm of the whole audience of 100,000 people

Anyway we already ascertained on the Lewis Hamilton thread exactly what your motivations are regarding Hamilton, so its likely that speaking for everyone is not going to include you in a month of Sundays no matter what

I thought Lewis was great today, actually. I may not be a fan of his but I'll admit it when I'm wrong... Just like I did in that thread.
I just wanted Massa to have 4th place more than Hamilton because he got screwed over by Ferrari, again... Admittedly, Mclaren didn't really help Lewis out either... But I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to stuff like this, don't we? :) no harsh feelings.

Heidfeld's always had issues getting heat into his tyres for one hot lap, which was magnified by the low track temperatures on saturday. Today he put in, as usual, a majestic drive from mediocrity to points and proved virtually impossible to overtake. God-like genius that he is.
He did add some godlike powers into that car, that's for sure.
 
Sorry old chap! Cheers! ;)

He increased his points lead there...and he's done it again today. That's the only thing he cares about. He's on his way to becoming the youngest double World Champion in history. You probably don't like that...but, hey, i'm sure he couldn't care less what you think.

Again, sorry for calling you a Fan-Boi, Extreme...and have a good evening, mate! :)

Apology accept Ray. Although, please do stick to telling me what you think rather than making assumptions about what I think and then making a further assumption about what someone else might think about what you assume I think. Better to just speak for yourself in my opinion.

Red Bull and thier number 1 driver will be more than deserving of both championships. after all they are playing to the same rulebook and are obliterating the opposition.

With regards to Vettel as an individual, and separating him from his machinery I have reserved judgement up to this point. Today I finally felt that I have enough information to give a balanced appraisal. My appraisal as I stated earlier is that he is undoubtably one of the most consistent, fast and measured of the current crop. He is in the top 3 drivers in terms of ability and skill. However, his race craft, specifically wheel to wheel, lacks when measured against both Alonso and Hamilton. I would find it difficult to accept that anyone might measure this differently but gladly accept that they might.

My honest opinion is that if you were to stick Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton in the same car Vettel would prop up the rear. There would be little to choose between the other two but I suspect that Hamilton would just edge Alonso.

The biggest gift to me of this day's race was the mixing up of the order, the changing of the conditions, the wheel to wheel action and that combined these give us a good platform upon which to finally pass judgement on F1's Wunderkid. For me, that makes this the best race of the season despite Hamilton coming fourth.
 
It was a cracking Grand Prix, Extreme! Loved it!!! :)

2011 shows what a junker of a circuit that Valencia is. Get rid of Valencia!!! More of Silverstone and Montreal, please!!! :)

Very true. Valencia begone. We have a couple of new tracks on the way with India and USA and there are certainly some classic circuits I'd like t see back. In this modern era, most of those would require a similar revamp to that which Silverstone has received.
 
Very true. Valencia begone. We have a couple of new tracks on the way with India and USA and there are certainly some classic circuits I'd like t see back. In this modern era, most of those would require a similar revamp to that which Silverstone has received.

I love the classic circuits in general, but for some reason I can't understand why Monza is so special as a track (The fans are great though!). Estoril, Brands Hatch, Dijon and Zandvoort would be great to have back, wouldn't they? (With as you say, Silverstone-like modifications needed)

As for Valencia, when its second best moment ever is that bloke running into the track to get a beer bottle last year, and when its a worse race than Barcelona, its really quite obvious that its a dreadful circuit (Although not quite as bad as Abu Dhabi or any of Bahrain's two layouts)
 
Something puzzles me. If Vettel is driving carefully to avoid any accidents why did he stick so closely to the back of Hamilton and keep moving to and fro behind him? That seems very much to me that he was trying to get past but failing.

Surely if he was just taking the long view he would have dropped back, preserved his tyres for a few more laps (did the commentators say that his tyres were shot after that stint?) and then closed up as he was due to come in.
 
Well another very enjoyable thing apart from the controvercies and hair raising moments in this GP was the after race team radios,....how refreshing is it not hearing "Great drive Seb" "yeah,...thank you guys, thank you" followed by the one fingered victory salute.
 
I think one of the reasons behind Ferrari being so Competitive at Silverstone was a clever valve they put on their exhaust that essentially still allowed them to blow the diffuser on the overrun. It was first seem in practice at Barcelona coinciding with when the regulations could have first been changed. This is quite interesting because seeming as the teams only had 1 weeks notice, you would think it would be impossible for Ferrari to come up with this innovative concept and manufacturer it and get it sent out to the GP within 1 week. It all suggests Ferrari had a big part in getting the regs changed in the first place.

http://www.formula1.com/wi/0x0/sutton/2011/d11esp328.jpg

You can see the picture above. Fans watching the grand prix in the stands yesterday have been saying Ferrari was still making strange noises on the overrun. This could have been a real innovative and clever concept that they thought of to overcome the reg changes. It's a shame in a way for Ferrari therefore that they're getting reverted, however, you've got to give it to them for doing it for the sport (supposedly). I did hear Bernie and Mr. Whitmarsh had words with Stefano on the morning of the GP.

All in all, I think the most intriguing thing at the next race will be how Ferrari pan out with the old regs coming back. If they are suddenly behind Red Bull again, when they were without doubt faster on race pace at a track where Red Bull thrive, then undoubtedly it will tell us they benefited much from the reg change. I hope they are still ahead as it will make for a fascinating 2nd half of the season. I'm also hoping that McLaren might sort themself out. They seemed to lose out most with the reg changes and with reverting back to the old ones, they might also get an upgrade working on the car and could be competitive again.
 
Okay so I missed something over the coarse of the weekend, are we going back to EBD's and Mapping?,......guess Horner and Co's pep talk worked charms at F1 Central, why not remove the whole bang and just go back to racing carbon-kevlar with an engine?

Essentially all I really need to know is are we going straight back to red bull dominance because two men huffed and puffed and veto the other teams or are we going to decide on a weekly basis what is and what isn't allowed?
 
For no other reason than I'm bored, here's a chart showing the lap times of the top 5 drivers in the WDC.

2011-british-gp-lap-times-top-5.webp


Button's last lap time before retiring was 1:33.666 :o
 
Not wanting to detract from the current sub-thread, but wondering if anyone knows why Hamilton was called to the stewards during practice or quali, I believe it was practice. Thanks!
 
Something puzzles me. If Vettel is driving carefully to avoid any accidents why did he stick so closely to the back of Hamilton and keep moving to and fro behind him? That seems very much to me that he was trying to get past but failing.

Surely if he was just taking the long view he would have dropped back, preserved his tyres for a few more laps (did the commentators say that his tyres were shot after that stint?) and then closed up as he was due to come in.

Well, if you're a racing driver your initial insticnt will always be to have a go. Firstly, because you have a belief that you can get by. Secondly, because there's an out-side chance that you might rattle the guy in front into an error.

When that fails, you have to try an alternate route...whether that's by dropping back to save fuel and tyres...or to pit for an undercut.

Obviously Vettel was wanting to ensure Alonso didn't get away...but he was smart enough to realize that Hamilton isn't exactly a lightweight.

THERE IS ANOTHER THING THAT HAS NOT BEEN MENTIONED (which has nothing to do with the above)...

...In answering a German reporter's question for AUTO MOTOR und SPORT Vettel said that the "3rd stint" "behind Hamilton" was the "first real dry" stint and being stuck behind him didn't give him a good enough feel on how far to go on re-setting wing angle at the next stop. Adjusting wing angle at a stop, he said, "can be useful" around Silverstone. So, when he came in after that stint, he didn't have a strong enough of a feeling on how much to go on wing angle on that stop...and not optimising the adjustment cost him time to Alonso and Webber thereafter.

I thought I should add that piece of info into this thread as I found it very interesting.
 
Well, if you're a racing driver your initial insticnt will always be to have a go. Firstly, because you have a belief that you can get by. Secondly, because there's an out-side chance that you might rattle the guy in front into an error.

When that fails, you have to try an alternate route...whether that's by dropping back to save fuel and tyres...or to pit for an undercut.

Obviously Vettel was wanting to ensure Alonso didn't get away...but he was smart enough to realize that Hamilton isn't exactly a lightweight.

by the way. Vettel chewed his tyres up and burned them out such that he was trying so hard to get past Hamilton. When he came in his tyres were shredded. This was not the result of conservative driving. It was the result of an aggressive push. One which was ultimately fruitless. As I said before, he wasn't up to it wheel to wheel against his rival who was in a slower car.

He made exactly the right choice to come in and get some clean air so that he wouldn't have to race with anybody to get past, but I'm sure he would much rather have pulled off a pass.

I know you probably think I am knocking Vettel for my own devices but I am just pointing out a chink in his armour which is becoming more and more evident. He is as fast as any man out there (blisteringly fast) until you take him out of a sprint and put him in a race.

I am not presuming this from pretending to know what he was thinking. I am concluding this from long-term observation of his actions.
 
Not wanting to detract from the current sub-thread, but wondering if anyone knows why Hamilton was called to the stewards during practice or quali, I believe it was practice. Thanks!

It was in relation to using DRS on wet or intemediate tyres
 
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