Grand Prix 2011 British Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

In a case of after the lord Mayor's show, we are back to square one after Valencia served up another placid race with the same result - A Sebastian Vettel victory. Some people reckon that the championship will be decided at Silverstone as if Red Bull still win despite the EBD ban, that is the championship over and done with for this season, and it's hard to argue with that considering Vettel has only dropped 14 points so far this season after 6 wins and 2 second places, not even Schumacher in his 2002/2004 pomp started a season like that.

So we go to a circuit where 3 drivers hold as their home grand prix, lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button and Paul Di Resta, but the Mclaren pair go into their home race in low spirits after their update package failed to get them closer to Red Bull on a circuit where Red Bull were supposedly weaker at than other tracks, a feeling that has been reflected across the paddock with Alonso admitting that the championship was virtually over and it would be more productive to focus on 2012 and 2013.

Silverstone has recieved a massive redevelopment as part of the 17 year contract it recieved when Donnington couldn't come up with the goods to stage a British Grand Prix and the new addition this year is the pit lane complex which looks stunning and has really elevated Silverstone into the 21st century as one of the elite grand prix facilities, (and certainly one to show off to the other countries when they come here ;) )

With the rule changes this could be the most unpredictable race of the season however, as we saw in Valencia, if anyone can adapt to rule changes, it's Red Bull, Adrian Newey has often been able to pull a rabbit out of a hat when the chips are down so don't be surprised to see Vettel take his seventh win of what has been a remarkable season for the young German who has swept all before him and is now walking towards his second World Championships and joining the select few who have won back to back Championships.

It's been a curious couple of weeks for Ferrari, off the pace and then suddenly back on it in Valencia and once again (like Turkey) they are the second fastest team again when the car is in the hands of Alonso (although Massa didn't exactly have a bad race himself)

Further down the grid at Toro Rosso, Alguesari has proven a point to his critics after a points finish at his home race and his second points finish in a row, and if he wants to keep his race seat there, he needs more of where that came from as Ricciardo is no slouch and will want the second seat at Toro Rosso next year. Even Sutil in the Force India shrugged off his critics to beat his team mate to claim a handful of points to relieve the pressure on his shoulders, albiet for only a short while.

For Galahads superb circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/silverstone-circuit/
 
As far as the rule changes go, we need to stop speculating on who it has affected the most. The changing conditions made this hard to tell and it is possible teams are running different setups to account for this. I'd reserve judgement until the end of the race.
 
People, People, People...

I purposely decided not to post anything since Schumacher failed the Q3 cut...and have skimmed through the past few pages...and have tried to cut through the fog of the BS between the teams and who's using what engine software...and my thoughts are these:

- The Pecking Order on the grid isn't much different than Canada: RBR, Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes;

- Ferrari said the "2nd Championship would start at Silverstone" and are indeed closer than ever this year in terms of time (although Alonso was on Row 1 for Canada). It means that Ferrari's upgrades are working, especially with respect to suspension/wings helping them on the Hards...and that the EBD issue is, frankly, masking the hard work they did since Spain and since re-calibrating their wind tunnel;

- Hamilton was merely cought out by conditions and choices. Ordinarily I think he might have been 4th or 5th on the grid. Rosberg same thing and ordinarily 6th or 7th on the grid.

- As per Vettel V Webber...well Webber has been getting closer to Vettel since Spain as he adapts better and better to Pirellis and opening up DRS earlier than he was in the Flyaways...and it's probably also a confidence thing on his end...and Vettel making sure he's there or thereabouts (for WDC reasons) instead of binning it while going balls out every second in tricky circumstances.

So, imo, the only thing that's changed is that Ferrari's one lap times are closer than ever...and, quite honestly, McLaren do really need to sort themselves on a number of fronts (especially qually strategy/choices (esp for Hamilton)) and not just on the EBD front.
 
I'm not sure what you are on about. I was referring to the live commentary after quali when they kept speculating why Hamilton had a poor lap. There was no mention of used tyres nor was it factored in in their assessment despite kravitz reporting this earlier. DC speculated that he did not see Hamilton go off the road. Hamilton also had another car following closely behind during Q3 when he was about to set his lap (not sure if this was Alonso or Rosberg but it looked like they were attempting to pass). Hamilton may have done a quick inlap as a result and probably overheated his tyres. Seeing as they were used tyres, the impact would've been more detrimental.

Sorry if that was unclear - when Ted reported that Hamilton was on
the same set of softs that he had used at the end of Q1, DC & MB
discussed that and basically said that the used set might have slowed
him by half a second, but not by the 2s he was off the pace. In
other words they didn't think that used tyres would have made much
difference. They probably would not have been aware that he only did
a single, slow lap on that set, so the drop off would likely have
been even less significant.

His in lap was 1m 37.111, and even if he did overheat that set he was
not going to use them any more, since he had a new set for his 2nd
run, so it could have had no bearing on his best lap which he had
already set. Of course he didn't get a 2nd run, but he would probably
have been a bit quicker.

While Hamilton's best lap may well be considered 'poor', it was his
fastest lap of the weekend - not that that means much.
 
- Ferrari said the "2nd Championship would start at Silverstone" and are indeed closer than ever this year in terms of time (although Alonso was on Row 1 for Canada). It means that Ferrari's upgrades are working, especially with respect to suspension/wings helping them on the Hards....

They'll run the hards for the first time since Barcelona when they were lapped so it's yet to be seen whether they've totally resolved the issue. They were also quite vociferous in their objections to Pirelli's bringing the compond to Silverstone so I'd reserve judgement until after the race. However for the second season in a row, it looks like they've caught and overtaken McLaren as Redbull's main rivals.

And Whitmarsh needs to get over his man crush on Button!!That prolonged hug during FP1 was embarassing to say the least. :whistle:
 
As regards to McLaren - Whitmarsh needs to get over his man crush on Button!!:whistle:

This year's Championship table, highlights mine:

CTA.webp


I don't think you can criticise Whitmarsh for bringing Button to McLaren, nor can you reasonably claim Hamilton is being treated as a number 2 driver.
 
And Whitmarsh needs to get over his man crush on Button!!That prolonged hug during FP1 was embarassing to say the least. :whistle:

Not as embarrassing as last year, when he told the Beeb guys that he had made a deal with Jenson to kiss him not just on both cheeks but in between, if he had won a race that he started way down the grid on.
 
crikey - went crazy on here didn't it?

Up early as you can see and after the curry last night I think my exhaust might be blowing hot air when I'm at 50% throttle.

To be honest the order and the pace seems to be the same as in Valencia so what the hell all this rule change is actually doing I have no idea.

Mark Webber seems to have woke up(finally!) but then he's always been an ace round Silverstone and as I predicted earlier in the thread I think he's gonna pick up the win this weekend.

Can I just bring up how brilliantly Alonso is driving at the moment? dragging that Ferrari towards the Red Bulls even if he is getting very little reward for doing it. Respect where respect is due Fernando.
 
So let's see if I got this right...

Mercedes blow hot,
Renault blow cold,
Ferrari don't blow hot or cold...

Oh, and the FIA just blow.

and, of course, McLaren's tactician's are having a lovely time in Barbados and hope their stand ins from Mothercare are doing OK...

Red Bull have the fastest quail pace, but now their race pace will be pushed by Ferrari, although normal English summers have resumed, so it'll probably be wet/changeable...

Actually, I'm still confused, I'll start again....

It's Sunday, we have chicken for lunch :)
 
Sorry if that was unclear - when Ted reported that Hamilton was on
the same set of softs that he had used at the end of Q1, DC & MB
discussed that and basically said that the used set might have slowed
him by half a second, but not by the 2s he was off the pace. In
other words they didn't think that used tyres would have made much
difference. They probably would not have been aware that he only did
a single, slow lap on that set, so the drop off would likely have
been even less significant.

His in lap was 1m 37.111, and even if he did overheat that set he was
not going to use them any more, since he had a new set for his 2nd
run, so it could have had no bearing on his best lap which he had
already set. Of course he didn't get a 2nd run, but he would probably
have been a bit quicker.

While Hamilton's best lap may well be considered 'poor', it was his
fastest lap of the weekend - not that that means much.

your completely missing the point.
 
This year's Championship table, highlights mine:

View attachment 1974

I don't think you can criticise Whitmarsh for bringing Button to McLaren, nor can you reasonably claim Hamilton is being treated as a number 2 driver.

when it comes to hamilton bad calls are made far to often.it was the same last season too.yes button has more points,but its more down to hamiltons bad luck.its 3-5 to lewis so far,and that dnf has made a big difference to the points tally.the 3 times button beat lewis was when lewis didnt have enough fresh tyres for the race in malaysia,he had bad luck in quali in monaco,and the dnf.and now it looks like button will benefit from hamiltons bad luck in quali yesterday.buttons still done a good job this season tho,but hamiltons bad luck has helped jenson quite a bit.
 
So let's see if I got this right...

Mercedes blow hot,
Renault blow cold,
Ferrari don't blow hot or cold...

Oh, and the FIA just blow.

Is it right they are going to revert back to having no rules on who Blows the most until the end of the season and then ban it by having exhaust pipes ala 1970's......
 
although Lewis' tyres at the start of Q3 were 'used'
in Q1, they were used for just a single lap, a 1'36s lap - in the rain. So, the newness
wouldn't have worn off that much.

I seem to have misread the FIA lap time data - either that or it was wrong and has been
corrected. Both McLaren drivers were given Option tyres when they stopped after 7
laps in Q1, both did a single lap returning back to the pits as the rain increased. The
times shown for those two laps are 4m 07.091s for Hamilton & 4m 33.915s for
Button. However, those times include time spent in the pits before starting that lap,
and the waiting time isn't shown, although checking a recording suggests that
Lewis was in the pits for approx. 2m 20s, giving an estimated lap time of 1m 47s,
and Button for 2m 10s (1m 57s). Those onscreen Ps are useful for such analysis.

I read today that Lewis complained about the decision to put them on Options
when it was clearly raining and that Martin Whitmarsh apologised.

Also, Lewis complained about being given used tyres in Q3 and McLaren have
admitted that the temporary rule change has hit them harder than the others.
 
Is it right they are going to revert back to having no rules on who Blows the most until the end of the season and then ban it by having exhaust pipes ala 1970's......

That's what the FIA have proposed, but it needs the unanimous approval of all
teams. So far, that hasn't happened - there's another meeting this morning.
 
Is it right they are going to revert back to having no rules on who Blows the most until the end of the season and then ban it by having exhaust pipes ala 1970's......

Isn't this what Martin Brundle wished for during the pre-quail show?

DC's retort was along the lines of "time moves on" - apparently not!

I do like the idea of the return of exhaust pipes, but I also like the idea of engineering excellence - that's the problem with this one, an opinion with nowhere to go.

Bottom line is that whatever the correct decision was, bogging up a race weekend didn't come anywhere close!
 
your completely missing the point.

Possibly. It wouldn't be a first.

The point I thought I was referring to was that the BBC
team (Jake, EJ & DC only, I think) discussed Hamilton's
lack of pace in Q3, but didn't take note that Ted had
told them (or DC at least, we don't know if the other
two were listening) that he might have been slow because
he had a used set of tyres. Brundle & Coulthard didn't
feel that was a significant factor, and analysis shows
that they were probably right and in fact the effect
of that set of used tyres was probably less than their
ballpark half a second.

McLaren have since admitted that the relatively poor
performance in qualifying is because they were unable to
resolve the problems optimising the car to take account
of the 'rule change'. No one was ready to propose that
as the main reason at the time - understandably.
 
This year's Championship table, highlights mine:

View attachment 1974

I don't think you can criticise Whitmarsh for bringing Button to McLaren, nor can you reasonably claim Hamilton is being treated as a number 2 driver.

I think the thing to remember is Button has outperformed himself and Lewis hasn't, yet there is only 12 points between them. Just look at the 3 times Jenson has beaten Lewis: Malaysia, Monaco and Canada. They were incident filled to say the least for Lewis. The key difference between Jenson and Lewis is consistency and Lewis' lack of consistency has cost him so far this season, but at the end of the season who do you reckon will be ahead of who?
 
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