Grand Prix 2010 Korean Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

And so it's into the great unknown that will be the Korean GP. As Galahad has already stated in his GP Preview, we know so little about this track, since there hasn't even been a test event to prove the circuit and so trying to guess the winner here would be almost impossible.

It's perhaps ironic that this race should be critical to a drivers hope for the title and yet because it's a new track be a complete unknown until they turn a wheel in anger on Friday. As a result I imagine the simulators and their programmers have been working overtime in the last couple of weeks in order that as much pre-race knowledge can be gleaned from every bite of the computer's memory.

Of course we all know that the big three are going to be there or there about this weekend but imagine what could happen if one is currently relying on mis-leading simulator data? Then there is also the risk that one of the chasing teams may hit upon a set up that could throw them right in the mix and spoil the party for one of the lead teams. With the recent improvements in the pace of the Mercedes, Williams and Renault cars (as long as they can keep it on the grey stuff) that's not out of the question either.

One thing I think it's not too difficult to say is that this race is now a must finish and must finish well for all 5 of the lead drivers. Mistakes that were made in the last few races must be forgotten and all thoughts should be on the job.

So the question is, which of the lead teams will be the best prepared and be on the pace from the off? Friday testing will be critical to establish the level of performance of the car so who will have the psychological advantage putting the fast laps in from day one?

It should be a fascinating weekend.

Finally Paul Di Resta will once again sit this weekend out to allow both Force India drivers maximum time at the wheel.
 

F1Yorkshire

Avatar for sale to the highest bidder
Contributor
I've just looked on F1Wolf and it seems that Vettel used engine number 8 for this race. Webber also used number 8 but would it have survived its impact without taking any damage?

With Interlagos and Abu Dhabi both been fairly fast tracks will any of their used engines be upto the job for the remaining races?

Alonso has been using his 8th engine for the last 3 races so he may still have problems.
http://www.f1wolf.com/2010-season
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Brogan said:
Just had a thought, if either Mark or Seb need a new gearbox then that's going to mean a grid drop at Brazil.

They're both in mid-cycle at the moment: http://www.f1wolf.com/2010-season

Edit: Looking at that, this was the 4th event for Mark's gearbox so he will be OK.
Only the 2nd event for Seb though.

Since they both DNF then they get a free box.
 

ATL11

Podium Finisher
F1Yorkshire said:
I've just looked on F1Wolf and it seems that Vettel used engine number 8 for this race. Webber also used number 8 but would it have survived its impact without taking any damage?

With Interlagos and Abu Dhabi both been fairly fast tracks will any of their used engines be upto the job for the remaining races?

Alonso has been using his 8th engine for the last 3 races so he may still have problems.
http://www.f1wolf.com/2010-season

So we could have Vettel with a 9th engine, they can't go back to the 2nd or the 5th can they? So a 9th would see a 10 grid penalty? Will RBR ask Webber to take Vettel's penalty cause it was his fault?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
They can use any of their previous engines at any time.

They can't also swap engines between cars to change who gets the penalty if a 9th engine is required.
 

F1Yorkshire

Avatar for sale to the highest bidder
Contributor
So Redbull will risk another engine blow-up by using an older engine as I can't see them taking a 10 place penalty at this stage unless they have no other choice.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
Here is the engine usage regulation:

28.4 a) Each driver may use no more than eight engines during a Championship season. Should a driver use
more than eight engines he will drop ten places on the starting grid at the first Event during which
each additional engine is used. If two such additional engines are used during a single Event the
driver concerned will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event and at the following Event.
An engine will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing transponder has shown that it has
left the pit lane.
b) If a driver is replaced at any time during the Championship season his replacement will be deemed to
be the original driver for the purposes of assessing engine usage.
c) After consultation with the relevant engine supplier the FIA will attach seals to each engine prior to it
being used for the first time at an Event in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be
rebuilt or replaced.
Within two hours of the end of the post race parc fermé exhaust blanking plates (with one 10mm
diameter inspection hole per cylinder) and further seals will be applied to all used engines in order to
ensure that these engines cannot be run between Events. Upon request to the FIA these additional
seals will be removed after the start of initial scrutineering at the next Event at which the engines are
required. All such engines must remain within the team’s designated garage area when not fitted to a
car and may not be started at any time during an Event other than when fitted to a car eligible to
participate in the Event.
d) If any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from an engine after it has been used for the first
time that engine may not be used again unless they were removed under FIA supervision.
e) If an engine is changed in accordance with Article 34.1 the engine which was replaced may not be
used during any future qualifying session or race with the exception of the last Event of the
Championship.


I had thought that an older engine could be re-used later in the season (and today I believe I heard Christian Horner say something to the effect that they still had a number of such engines left for Vettel, so he would be ok for the remaining races). But does paragraph e) mean that they can't use old engines again, except in the last race? Or does this only apply to engines that are replaced between qualifying and race day? In other words, must each engine only be used in consecutive events?
 
You can use any of your engines whenever you like; in theory at least 3 engines will need to do 3 races over the season, however the thing about the end of the season is that if you have at any time changed an engine at the track while under parc ferme conditions then you can only use this engine again at the last race.

Vettel can still use an old engine, it just wont have quite the same power output dont the long straights of Brazil and Abu Dhabi. However, if memory serves, he had similar engine worries last season and that turned out ok.

Worried for Alonsos engine though.
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
34.1 Each car will be deemed to be in parc fermé from the time at which it leaves the pit lane for the first time during qualifying practice until the start of the race. Any car which fails to leave the pit lane during qualifying practice will be deemed to be in parc ferme at the end of Q1.
Between these times, other than when cars are returned to the parc fermé overnight, the following work may be carried out :
- engines may be started ;
- Ssubject to the requirements of Article 29.1S fuel may be added or removed and a fuel breather fitted ;
- wheels and tyres may be removed, changed or rebalanced and tyre pressures checked ;
- spark plugs may be removed in order to carry out an internal engine inspection and cylinder compression checks ;
- permitted heating or cooling devices may be fitted ;
- a jump battery may be connected and on board electrical units may be freely accessed via a physical connection to the car ;
- charging and / or discharging of the KERS energy storage devices ;
- removal of the KERS energy storage devices which, once marked by the FIA technical delegate, may be retained overnight by the team ;
- the main electrical battery and radio batteries may be changed ;
- the brake system may be bled ;
- engine oil may be drained ;
- compressed gases may be drained or added ;
- Sfluids used for replenishment must conform to the same specification as the original fluid. Fluids with a specific gravity less than 1.1 may be drained and / or replenished, however, no replenishment may take place less than one hour and 30 minutes before the start of the formation lap unless specific approval has been given by the FIAS.
SIn order to ensure that fluids are not being used as ballast the FIA reserves the right to weigh cars which took part in Q3 at random during the one hour period commencing one hour and 30 minutes before the start of the formation lap. When a car is weighed in this way, and taking into account any fuel added under Article 29.1, its weight must be within 3kg of its weight at the completion of its final qualifying run, if not, fluids other than fuel may be replenished or drained under FIA supervisionS ;
- the aerodynamic set up of the front wing may be adjusted using the existing parts. No parts may be added, removed or replaced ;
- if the FIA technical delegate is satisfied that changes in climatic conditions necessitate alterations to the specification of a car, changes may be made to the air ducts around the front and rear brakes and radiator ducts.

These changes may be made at any time after the message “CHANGE IN CLIMATIC CONDITIONS” is shown on the timing monitors, from this point the choice of air ducts around the front and rear brakes and radiator ducts is free, subject always to compliance with the relevant Technical Regulations.
- bodywork (excluding radiators) may be removed and / or cleaned ;
- cosmetic changes may be made to the bodywork and tape may be added ;
2010 F1 Sporting Regulations 19 of 48 30 April 2009
- any part of the car may be cleaned ;
- on board cameras, marshalling system components, timing transponders and any associated equipment may be removed, refitted or checked ;
- any work required by the FIA technical delegate ;
- changes to improve the driver's comfort. In this context anything other than the adjustment of mirrors, seat belts and pedals may only be carried out with the specific permission of the FIA technical delegate. The addition or removal of padding (or similar material) is also permitted but may only be carried out under supervision and, if required by the FIA technical delegate, must be removed before the post-race weighing procedure.
- drinking fluid for the driver may be added at any time, however, the capacity of the container for any such fluid must not exceed 1.5 litres ;
- repair of genuine accident damage ;
- any parts which are removed from the car in order to carry out any work specifically permitted above, or any parts removed to carry out essential safety checks, must remain close to it and, at all times, be visible to the scrutineer assigned to the relevant car.

Any work not listed above may only be undertaken with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request from the team concerned. It must be clear that any replacement part a team wishes to fit is similar in mass, inertia and function to the original. Any parts removed will be retained by the FIA.

However, if a team wishes to change a part during the qualifying session and/or on the grid before the start of the race, this may be done without first seeking the permission of the technical delegate, provided it is reasonable for the relevant team to believe permission would be given if there was time to ask and the broken or damaged part remains in full view of the scrutineer assigned to the car at all times.
Well, 34.1 is as clear as mud when it comes to engines..
 

F1Yorkshire

Avatar for sale to the highest bidder
Contributor
I'm looking at the technical report for the race. Webber took his 8th new engine for this race. It also says Kovalinen changed his engine but it was for one that was previously used so no penalty. If we can look over the technical reports for the whole season we might be able to work out which engines Red Bull still have to use and where they used them, only problem is that you can't access the technical reports for earlier in the season.

For next season I think we should have a thread dedicated to engines so it will be easier to keep track on who has used what over the season. There will also be an extra race to run with the same amount of engines.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
F1Yorkshire said:
only problem is that you can't access the technical reports for earlier in the season.

For next season I think we should have a thread dedicated to engines so it will be easier to keep track on who has used what over the season. There will also be an extra race to run with the same amount of engines.
I've got every FIA document from every race on my PC :D

Regarding engines and gearboxes, I did consider tracking them this season but didn't think there was that much interest.
Seems I was wrong.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
One thing I'm confused about is the winning time which is being shown as 2:48:20.810.

I thought there was a 2 hour time limit?
So either the clock should have stopped when the race was red-flagged or the clock carries on and the race should have finished 48 minutes earlier.

Can anyone explain what is supposed to happen?
 

chreden

Podium Finisher
Contributor
The time spent delaying was added on to the 2 hour total time.

Edit - during the race, they said it would just be added on after the race was finished, I think.
 
Brogan said:
One thing I'm confused about is the winning time which is being shown as 2:48:20.810.

I thought there was a 2 hour time limit?
So either the clock should have stopped when the race was red-flagged or the clock carries on and the race should have finished 48 minutes earlier.

Can anyone explain what is supposed to happen?

It is an oddity because if you look at the lap times on the FIA website, every car is credited as having a 48 minute lap which is a record I would say.

I thought the clock should stop myself but maybe there is an element of human intuition to the whole clock stopping thing.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Buemi and Sutil given 5 place grid drops at Brazil for causing collisions.

Sutil tried to claim it was due to dodgy brakes so he was subsequently also fined $10,000 for carrying on despite being aware of the problem :D
 

LifeW12

Podium Finisher
F1Yorkshire said:
For next season I think we should have a thread dedicated to engines so it will be easier to keep track on who has used what over the season. There will also be an extra race to run with the same amount of engines.

:thankyou: :thumbsup:

Didn't Massa take a new engine in Singapore but he can't use the one that he replaced?

Alonso will surpass Jackie Stewarts 27 wins if he wins the last 2 this year. It seems strange how there are way more races today yet the driver's don't seem to be able to win this many races.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
FB said:
Brogan said
He only has to finish in 3rd place at the last 2 races to take the title by a single point.

If that transpires it will forever be a title tainted by the situation in Germany. For Alonso to win this title he has to be at least 8 points clear of the 2nd place man to deserve any respect.

Not really, as for the last 2 races he will be judging what he has to do based on the actual scores, not some sort of moral fortitude. The current table shows him 11 points clear, not 3, and I think I'm right in saying that there have been past discussions on here about 'tainted' titles, and how a case can be made for just about each and every one. Time to let it go.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
LifeW12 said:
Alonso will surpass Jackie Stewarts 27 wins if he wins the last 2 this year. It seems strange how there are way more races today yet the driver's don't seem to be able to win this many races.

I take issue with that. Of the top 10 in the Wins league, 6 are 80s or later drivers [Schu, Prost, Senna, Mansell, Alonso, Piquet], one is a half way house [Lauda] and the other three are Clark, Stewart and Fangio. David Coulthard has won more races than Mario Andretti, Juan Montoya has won more than Gilles Villeneuve.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
TBY Said
David Coulthard has won more races than Mario Andretti, Juan Montoya has won more than Gilles Villeneuve.

I don't think you would get much of an argument regarding the respective skill levels when comparing those drivers TBY. Just goes to prove the "lies, damned lies and statistics" quote is true.

I remember Mansell getting all excited when he passed Stirling Moss' win record for English drivers and I'm not even going to go down that road.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
FB said:
I remember Mansell getting all excited when he passed Stirling Moss' win record for English drivers and I'm not even going to go down that road.

I wasn't aware there was a road to go down in that situation!
 
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