Grand Prix 2010 British Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Is it just me or does this statement from Horner sound like "We took Mark on when no one else would and he should be grateful to have the chance to drive a front running car. Anyway, let's get back to talking about how we are going to win the title with Vettel"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 807666.stm

"Mark is a competitive guy, he's pushing hard, nobody likes to be beaten by their team-mate but at the end of the day they both drive for the team.

"We have given Mark a great opportunity to drive for a front-running team, he's doing a great job, he's driving brilliantly well.
Isn't it a bummer when your number 2 driver turns out to be as quick as your much celebrated Number 1.

So, let's review the facts so far.

1) The team make Vettel out to be more of the victim during their recent coming together.
2) Due to Marks collision with Heikki and an apparent shortage of chassis at Red Bull, Mark now finds himself not racing a new chassis but a patched up one that Vettel refused to use claiming that it was damaged and that he couldn't drive it.
3) Vettel busts his front wing, there is no spare, that front wing is taken off of Marks car and put on Vettels.
4) There is no bias in Red Bull claims Horner.

Hmmmm, I think one of those facts is wrong, now which one. :thinking:
 

Brogan

🦶Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I had to laugh at Brundle's comments concerning Vettel's "damaged" chassis and how the engineers sometimes just go to the back of the garage and "shake a bag of spanners" to make the driver feel better :D

Like him I suspect there was nothing wrong with it and it was just Vettel's excuse for being beaten by Mark a few races in a row.

After all, it can't be that bad as Mark was just 0.143 seconds slower and that's with the old wing.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
I had to laugh at Brundle's comments concerning Vettel's "damaged" chassis and how the engineers sometimes just go to the back of the garage and "shake a bag of spanners" to make the driver feel better :D

Like him I suspect there was nothing wrong with it and it was just Vettel's excuse for being beaten by Mark a few races in a row.

After all, it can't be that bad as Mark was just 0.143 seconds slower and that's with the old wing.
Yeah, The placebo effect. LOL

I've read on more than one occasion where a mechanic has listened to a driver moan on about something not being right, the mechanic then doing nothing to the car except claim that he's tightened the snurgle or the oojamaflip, watch the guy go out and take a second off his time, come back in and tell the mech he's a genius.
 

P1

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Christian Horner is a bit of a jerk. I really hope Webber manages to beat wet towel
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
Vitantonio Liuzzi demoted from 15th to 20th for impeding Nico Hülkenberg in Q2.
Bit of let down for Liuzzi that and if i was him i'd be pretty miffed given that Yamamoto only got a reprimand for exactly the same offense (not that he could go any further back on the grid mind) but it just highlights once again inconsistency in penalties.

Alguersuari was also fined $5,000 for an unsafe release.
 

Brogan

🦶Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I think they look at the potential impact on the driver who was impeded which is why Liuzzi's penalty was more severe.
He basically blocked Hülkenberg which destroyed his lap.

As for Alguersuari's fine, isn't it the team that is fined and not the driver?
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I'm sure the team probably do foot the bill
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

C_A_T said:

"So, let's review the facts so far.

1) The team make Vettel out to be more of the victim during their recent coming together.
2) Due to Marks collision with Heikki and an apparent shortage of chassis at Red Bull, Mark now finds himself not racing a new chassis but a patched up one that Vettel refused to use claiming that it was damaged and that he couldn't drive it.
3) Vettel busts his front wing, there is no spare, that front wing is taken off of Marks car and put on Vettels.
4) There is no bias in Red Bull claims Horner."


All true, as far as it goes. However, McLaren claim there is no favoritism towards Lewis, yet:

1) Lewis finally moves ahead of Button in the Championship
2) McLaren introduces "improvements" for the British GP
3) Button now calls his car "undriveable"

Coincidence? (It may be, but the appearence is not good)

Point is, every team, whether they admit it or not, have a Number 1 and a number 2 driver.Webber, as talented as he is, is not a driver that I would choose to head my team-he is far too prone to contact. Vettel has this fault to some degree, but there is a greater chance that he will "outgrow it" than will Webber given their difference in ages. I also think that, were Mark to go elsewhere, he would be as big a disappointment as Irvine was when he went to Jaguar.
 

Brogan

🦶Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

siffert_fan said:
All true, as far as it goes. However, McLaren claim there is no favoritism towards Lewis, yet:

1) Lewis finally moves ahead of Button in the Championship
2) McLaren introduces "improvements" for the British GP
3) Button now calls his car "undriveable"

Coincidence? (It may be, but the appearence is not good)
Hmmm, I think that's stretching things a bit.
The upgrade was the blown rear diffuser which had nothing to do with either driver's particular style.
Unlike say with Mercedes which involved changes to the chassis length, etc.

Besides, the upgrades have been removed apart from the new front wing so to claim it as favouritism towards Lewis isn't credible at all.
 

cosicave

Banned
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

No siffert_fan. I don't agree with the following assertion of yours, about McLaren:

"1) Lewis finally moves ahead of Button in the Championship
2) McLaren introduces "improvements" for the British GP
3) Button now calls his car "undriveable"
Coincidence? (It may be, but the appearence is not good)"
______________
There are a great many differences, but I will focus on the most obvious counter to your argument: the personality and demeanour of the drivers.

Now, I'm not taking sides- I have no 'preference', but most people in the racing fraternity know that Button is prone to getting a bit down-beat when he can't understand or solve the problem. On the other hand, Hamilton is gaining a reputation for being able to 'drive around problems' and there is little doubt that he is the more 'adaptable' of the two, finding it easier to get a quicker lap, sooner.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Bro and Cos,

The key word in my previous post was APPEARENCE. In the world of Formula 1, appearence is often accepted as fact, depending on whether they happen to conform to one's predispostion or not.

For instance, everyone seems to feel that Mercedes made the changes to the chassis strictly to suit MS. The thought that it might have been done to overcome a general flaw in the car never seems to occur to some people.
 

Brogan

🦶Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

siffert_fan said:
Bro and Cos,

The key word in my previous post was APPEARENCE. In the world of Formula 1, appearence is often accepted as fact, depending on whether they happen to conform to one's predispostion or not.

For instance, everyone seems to feel that Mercedes made the changes to the chassis strictly to suit MS. The thought that it might have been done to overcome a general flaw in the car never seems to occur to some people.
That's a fair point.
I didn't pick up on that inference in your original post.
 

cosicave

Banned
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

siffert_fan:
I did pick up on your use of the word 'appearance'. I know you were not stating it as an absolute.

However, in making your point about the possible 'appearance', you inferred the assertion. And it is that assertion, whether or not it is held by you, which I disagree with.

Furthermore your final paragraph also contains several contentious points. I disagree with the absolute nature of your first sentence, since it is really a matter of opinion, rather than a proven fact (particularly as it is outlawed). - I quote:

siffert_fan said:
Point is, every team, whether they admit it or not, have a Number 1 and a number 2 driver.Webber, as talented as he is, is not a driver that I would choose to head my team-he is far too prone to contact. Vettel has this fault to some degree, but there is a greater chance that he will "outgrow it" than will Webber given their difference in ages. I also think that, were Mark to go elsewhere, he would be as big a disappointment as Irvine was when he went to Jaguar.
You have made some points which I may personally agree with. I have merely attempted to clarify the bits where I disagree.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Whatever the rights and wrongs of favouritism are, there are some things that are abundantly clear.

  1. Horner is suggesting there is no favouritism at Red Bull
  2. There is favouritism at Red Bull.
  3. Horner says the decision was based on Championship points.
  4. At 12 points behind Vettel, Webber is hardly a non-runner.
  5. His decision to hang Webber out to dry in Turkey came when he was not just Red Bull's leader in the Championship, but the whole Championship's leader.
  6. Red Bull have hemorrhaged 140 points from qualifying to races thus far.
  7. That means in 9 races they have binned the equivalent to 5.6 race wins!
  8. In qualifying trim, both Red Bull drivers have amassed enough points to lead the Constructors' Championship!
  9. Raced properly, this Red Bull team would have no need to back one driver for the WDC.

That McLaren lead either (never mind both) Championships at the start of British GP weekend is a damning indictment of the reliability, race craft and team management lacking at the energy drink team.

Horner needs to BS us all, because his head could well be on the block if McLaren develop their upgrades significantly!
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I'm very pleased with the showing of the Williams team this weekend. Earlier in the week, I read that they were committed to using the Cosworth again next year. Does anyone know why, when there are better engines out there and the designs are supposedly frozen (with the possible exception of the Red Menace engines)?
 

Brogan

🦶Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I agree, it's great to see Williams improving after it seemed they were slipping down the grid.

Regarding the engine, I know that they signed a 3 year contract with Cosworth so I expect that is the main reason for them sticking with them.
The penalty clauses would probably be too much if they were to cancel now.
 

cosicave

Banned
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

siffert_fan said:
I'm very pleased with the showing of the Williams team this weekend. Earlier in the week, I read that they were committed to using the Cosworth again next year. Does anyone know why, when there are better engines out there and the designs are supposedly frozen (with the possible exception of the Red Menace engines)?
That is one of the coolest, most elegant and perfectly timed side-steps I've ever seen in a forum. Top man siffert! :yes:
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Talking of teams moving the right way, it is nice to see Sauber move into the Q3 mix, with their second car as high up as 12th. Though it may be a false dawn as Kobayashi was out in Q1 last week, it is nice seeing them moving up the grid.

It is also nice seeing de la Rosa outqualify Schumacher on Grandfather Row 5.

Kubica a full 9 positions ahead of Petrov as well; he's having a really good season. It also shows Nick Heidfeld's quality for beating Kubica last year*.

*If you're new to this site, I want to see Nick Heidfeld replace Granddad in the #3 car. I feel he'd do a better job. Search the word 'Heidfeld' on this site, and its likely I posted it.
 

DOF_power

Banned
Re: 2010 British GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Another crappy race.
Why don't they just ban blocking, that would increase the overtaking.
 
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