Grand Prix 2010 Belgian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

So after what has seemed like an age, F1 resumes and it is to arguably one of the most liked circuits on the calendar, by both drivers and fans.

With Spa being a relatively high speed circuit, low downforce is the order of the day. Renault will be introducing yet more upgrades, including their version of the F-Duct. It will be interesting to see how the relative performance of the car compares to the McLaren.

The FIA announced earlier that they would be changing the bodywork flexi tests after all the controversy surrounding the Red Bull front wings. So it remains to be seen whether Red Bull will have a legal car and if so, whether they will retain the significant advantage they have enjoyed of late.

There have also been some circuit changes with extra run off areas and more artificial grass. In addition, a control loop has been installed at Radillion (the left hand turn after Eau Rouge) which will inform race control if all 4 wheels of a car are off the circuit. It's a good job Kimi's not racing this weekend...

Things are still very tight in the WDC with just 20 points separating the top 5, which is about 8 points in "old money", so any one of 5 drivers could be leading come Sunday.
A lot will hinge on the FIA tests though as to who will have an advantage, if anyone.

Will Force India be able to repeat their nearly-success from last year?
Michael Schumacher will be hoping that his experience and knowledge of the circuit will give him an advantage.

Throw in some inclement weather and a safety car and it could be anyone's race.

All the circuit related data including a simulation video and weather foreacast is here: Belgium - Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

teabagyokel said:
Yeah, but what if the kids climb over the fence tomorrow. Mark Webber would be out in Q1.

Any agile Mclaren fans out there?

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

If one were a cynic, you could say "are they the same wings" as used before.

Christian Horner stated earlier today that they have made no changes at all to their car.
So you would have to assume that they already did the tests the FIA announced they were going to do and were happy that their wing could handle a 100Kg static load.

The fact that parts of the car are still going lower than 85mm above the reference plane and the FIA tests are inadequate for testing this is another issue.

 

[teabagyokel]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

TEABAG YOKEL'S MAD GRAND PRIX OF BELGIUM

Q1 - Kid climbs fence. Alonso out in Q1.
Grid - 1 Vettel 2 Webber 3 Massa 4 Hamilton 5 Kubica 6 Sutil
Race -
Lap 1 - Vettel takes both Red Bulls out at La Source. Webber rejoins a lap down. Massa leads.
TEAM RADIO - WEBBER: There's poisonous vipers in Australia less dangerous than this chap
Lap 3 - Schumacher pushes Alonso towards wall on home straight. Alonso spins Schuey at La Source and carries on.
TEAM RADIO - ALONSO: I spin him. Call Charlie and claim victim status.
Lap 10 - Webber crashes into the back of Glock at Blanchimant and forces a Saftey Car.
- Massa pitstop goes wrong; Alonso forced to queue. Hamilton leads from Kubica, Sutil and Kobayashi
Lap 14 - As race gets underway, Kobayashi passes Sutil for 3rd
TEAM RADIO - KOVALAINEN (Mike Gascoyne): We're in a good position, Heikki, everyone else is doing something stupid
Lap 28 - Button passes Sutil
Lap 29 - RAIN STARTS, Massa spins
Lap 30 - Button makes a traditionally brave early pit-stop, ends up in wall at top of hill; McLaren leave Hamilton out
Lap 32 - All drivers bar Hamilton, Rosberg and Buemi pit
Lap 33 - Hamilton slides into wall on pit entry - retires. Kubica leads from Kobayashi and Sutil.
TEAM RADIO - HAMILTON: Who's idea was that tyre thing? Stupid.
Lap 35 - Massa spins. Kobayashi tries to dive on inside of Kubica at Bus Stop. Fails.
Lap 36 - Massa spins. Schumacher relinquishes 10th to Alguersuari after Alguersuari drives past him at Les Combes. Schuey reacts at Malmedy pushing thin air onto the grass.
TEAM RADIO - MASSA (Rob Smedley): Come on, lad, keep it in a straight line.
Lap 38 - Liuzzi crashes at Stavelot. Kobayashi passes Kubica for the lead.
Lap 39 - Disaster for Kobayashi! Massa (1 Lap down) spins in front of him and holds him up for Kubica to get past.
TEAM RADIO - ALONSO: I'm getting fed up of this! Shut up, Aldo!
Lap 40 - Sutil passes Kobayashi as well. Massa spins.
Lap 42 - Alonso (unlapping himself past Barrichello) runs off the track at Rivage. He gets out of his undamaged car, throws his steering wheel at a tree and kicks a marshall.
- Massa spins.
Lap 44 - KUBICA WINS!
TEAM RADIO - KUBICA: Did something happen?

1- Kubica 2- Sutil 3- Kobayashi 4- Barrichello 5- Hulkenburg 6- Petrov 7- Buemi 8- Rosberg 9- Liuzzi 10- Kovalainen

 

[MCLS]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The silly tyre allocations once again affected Friday running and could have an impact on the race depending on the weather.

Former world champion Lewis Hamilton was one driver who reckoned that the tyre rules could need revisiting, after teams sat in the garage for a lot of Friday to conserve tyres.

"Well it would be better for the fans if we had more tyres and could go out more and test, because that's what we're here to do," he said. "It feels a little bit silly to be here, prepared all this time, and then just sit in the garage for the whole of Friday.

"I liked the old days where you could go out and practice and practice and practice. That's what it was about."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86177

Another ridiculous rule which doesn't seem to have any purpose other than to cause problems for the teams and reduce the spectacle for the fans.

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Mark once again going against his team wishes by sticking it on pole

Lewis had his best chance to get his second pole of the season but a small mistake on his first flying lap meant he starts in second, despite being one of only a few drivers to improve on his time once the rain started again.

Excellent result from Robert, can he get a podium tomorrow?

Expect to see Fernando fighting his way through the midfield tomorrow, starting from 10th.

 

[siffert_fan]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I will be curious to see how Alonso "miraculously" manages to get past Massa tomorrow. I am pretty certain there will be no radio communications to "clarify" the situation to Felipe!

 

[teabagyokel]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Last year saw Button and Hamilton caught in the middle of the field and eliminated by Grosjean and Alguersuari at the top of the hill. So Alonso may not be able to charge.

Alonso won't get past Massa if he can't get to the back of him; and I think Alonso could have some difficulty because Ferrari aren't that fast at this track and we know he may get frustrated.

The spectre of the rain also hangs over the race.

 

[MajorDanby]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Well, I'm for one hoping for a dry race now, after that qualifying performance from Lewis.

I think it is obvious that the RBRs have had their wings clipped. They have had to modify their aero, and have lost a bit of pace, same goes for Ferrari. I don't think that the McLaren's could have made up that much space based on track characteristics alone. Especially with the middle sector at Spa.

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I think it is obvious that the RBRs have had their wings clipped.

Very clever

I agree though, it's clear that the huge advantage that Red Bull have had at recent races doesn't exist here at Spa.
Whether that's due to the revised wing that isn't (Horner categorically stated that the car is identical), the circuit being a low downforce circuit, or a combination of both, is anyone's guess.

I think we'll have to wait until a few more races before we can determine that.

 

[snowy]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I for one will be watching the onboard footage with great interest. The Ferrari front wing looked like it was running at a normal height, though it has been very hard to spot its flexing in past races.

The Ferrari seemed to have good pace this weekend but it suddenly disappeared for qualifying. And Red Bull losing a two second advantage from Hungary with an identical car seems totally implausible! Yet that is apparently what has happened... mind boggling.

Did anyone else notice Kubica's broken front wing and the way it sort of came unhinged in several places? It looked suspiciously complex.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
Did anyone else notice Kubica's broken front wing and the way it sort of came unhinged in several places? It looked suspiciously complex.

How very odd; I posted a link to the BBC website Qualy photos page, on another thread about flexi wings, on which there was a shot of Petrov's car on the recovery truck, with a really good view of its front end.

Now that photo's gone. Hmmm

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

This one?

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Yes!

Where did you find that? And what does it tell us, if anything?

 

[MajorDanby]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Are we sure thats not Petrov's car after he was recovered from his kiss with the wall in Q1?

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Yes!

Where did you find that? And what does it tell us, if anything?

It was on the link you posted on the other thread, second last image.

MD, it is indeed Petrov's car from Q1.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
It was on the link you posted on the other thread, second last image.

That's weird; when I use the link, or when I go to the BBC page direct, that photo isn't there any more.

Anyway, I didn't even know whether Kubica had broken his wing, so I assumed that snowy must have meant Petrov. But I'm no nearer knowing what tricks Renault might be up to with their wing. I'm just relieved that Red Bull are not streets ahead of Mclaren like they were at Hungary. Whether it's because of the new wing tests or not I have no idea, and we will probably never know for sure. Whatever it was, I am just happy that Hammy gave one of his typically storming drives to a front row spot, and I hope he can reproduce that tomorrow.

 

[BlackCountryBob]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Interesting stats

- The last time that a car other than a Ferrari or McLaren won at Spa was 1998 when Damon Hill won in a Jordan in the wet.

- Only Massa and Schumacher on the grid have ever won at Spa (and Massa is up for question given that he won in the stewards office in 08); Kimi won 4 of the last 5 at Spa.

- Since Spa began hosting the Belgian GP full time again in 1985, in only 7 of the 22 events (no race in 03 or 06) has the man on pole won on Sunday (Senna in 88, 89, 90 & 91, Hakkinen in 2000, Schumacher in 2002 and Kimi in 2007)

So, bad omens for Webber then, all the signs point to Red Bull again failing to turn a good Saturday into a good Sunday.

 

[Galahad]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

That is an interesting looking mounting for the Renault front wing. It did seem to break in an "odd" way.

As for the relative merits of the leading cars, it might be more to do with different cars' tyre usage characteristics as much as raw pace. It was noticeable that only one team were able to get close to - and improve their times - on their second runs in Q3. Perhaps McLaren were simply getting more heat into their slicks on a very green track than either the Red Bulls or (particularly) the Ferraris? Certainly that fits with a pattern seen for the red cars this season.

If it's warm and dry tomorrow I wouldn't rule out Webber at all.

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Belgian GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Hamilton, Button and Alonso all ran with used options for their first flying lap in Q3.
Unfortunately it rained (albeit very lightly) for the second flying lap but despite this both Hamilton and Button were able to improve.