Schumacher's Race Wins record under threat ?

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Il_leone, Oct 12, 2015.

?
  1. Yes - Hamilton

    0
    0.0%
  2. Yes - Vettel

    1
    7.1%
  3. Yes - Both

    2
    14.3%
  4. Yes - Another driver

    0
    0.0%
  5. No - Record will stand for another decade at least

    11
    78.6%
  1. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    The saying that " Records are made to be broken" . Some records like being the fastest man or woman on Earth have stood for many years. Suspicions have been raised that the times set were done with illegal drugs such were the margins of victory and times to the opposition without being able to prove this.

    Michael Schumacher's record for most race wins looked like at one stage it would stand forever because he was able to win in the most dominant one driver and team era with the knowledge that his team mate's challenge would be nullified by written contract. The same could be applied to Giacomo Agostini's Motorcycling race win record of 122 wins which looked impossible but now the Doctor just might have an outside chance of eclipsing it.

    Hamilton's victory yesterday took him above his idol Ayrton Senna and equal 4th on the all time list of 42 wins equal with Vettel and both are now behind Alain Prost's record of 51 wins.


    Comparing their records
    Hamilton aged 30 :42 wins from 163 races / 25.77%
    Vettel aged 28 : 42 wins from 154 races / 27.27%

    Schumacher : 91 wins from 250 races (excluding comeback races) / 36.40%

    With the Grand Prix calendar being longer now and both still very much approaching their peak years. The dominant drivers are now winning about 8 races or more regularly now
     
    Greenlantern101 likes this.
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  3. snowy

    snowy Champion Elect

    I believe Sebastian might be a little more inclined towards empire building than Lewis. And I don't believe that F1 and the FIA will allow Mercedes dominance to persist for any length of time. Bernie has been insisting for some time that this generation of Power Units must die.
     
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  4. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    Its going to be close.

    They are both going to keep racing into their late 30's I would think, they will be in a top team for most of that, and at 20 races per season the odds are they will be there or there abouts.

    If they raced till they were 38 and won on average just over 6 races per season they would break the record.
     
  5. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    No off course Mercedes will not dominate forever but based on their age they are winning about on average 8 races a season and I think one of them can do it before they retire

    2011 - Vettel won 11
    2012 - Vettel won 5
    2013 - Vettel won 13
    2014 - Hamilton won 11
    2015 - Hamilton has won 9 and counting

    The power units might do but the F1 calendar is getting longer so there are more chances to win assuming both will still be in top cars

    I can see both swapping teams at some point or racing each other in the same team
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
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  6. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    Of course if the engines change in 2017 Mercedes could come out with an even more dominant engine. Now there's a thought. :o
     
  7. snowy

    snowy Champion Elect

    We only have to look at Fernando Alonso to see just how critical it is to be in the right car at the right time. He has won just 17 races in the last 9 years! Sebastian didn't get any wins and was blown away by Daniel Ricciardo just a year ago. There are other Ricciardos out there too, Kvyat, Verstappen, Bottas and who knows who else is waiting or being shaped or manufactured to be the next winning machine.
     
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  8. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    Car is essential but you also have to dominate your team mate or even better ensure you are your teams no.1 driver as Schumacher did in both instances.
     
  9. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Alonso would have won more races had he stayed at Mclaren and possibly titles

    I don;t know how long Max Verstappen will be around in F1 but could he break Schumacher's record?
     
  10. Dash Racing

    Dash Racing Points Scorer

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    I hope so! He's showed a lot of raw ability this year. Lap down? Who cares, let's finish in the points anyway! Can't pass at Monaco? Uh, nope, you can, you cowards! Big move around the outside at Blanchimont? :censored: yeah, sounds like fun! Skill, big brass balls, and plenty of time to keep developing as a driver, because no-one expects miracles from someone so young. If he doesn't become one of the dominant drivers by the time he's 25, I'd be very surprised.

    As for Vettel and Hamilton breaking Schumacher's record? I think both could.
     
  11. Olivier

    Olivier Race Winner

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    It's going to take a lot to get close to Schumacher's record, but the fact there are 25% more races this year than 10 years ago (I pulled that star from nowhere so don't look it up) and also that teams tend to be more dominant for longer periods of time could play in favour of current drivers. However I voted no. Both Hamilton and Vettel are tremendously competitive and that is going to prevent either one of them to get close to Schumi's record.
     
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  12. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    Ok I looked it up :p;). 1995 17 races. 2005 19 races. Not that much different from now 19 races last year and 19 this year.

    Also Schumachers record is mostly down to the longest domination of any team in F1 history with Ferrari 1999-2004 so in some ways team domination has always been a feature of F1, particularly in Schumachers era. The link below lists longest unbroken domination by constructors.

    WCC Unbroken Dominance
     
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  13. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Greenlantern101 Schumacher started F1 when he was 21/ 22 years old but it took 3 seasons to be the dominant force because there were still Senna , Prost and Mansell around. He also was not driving the best car(s) initially and really took a gamble in jumping to Ferrari and had to wait 5 years to deliver the title. Then followed a period of domination which was also helped by weak opposition outside his own team (and Ferrari managing to seriously bend the rules in their favour under Todt).

    However both Hamilton and Vettel have pretty much jumped into top cars straight into their career and have not had as many seasons driving lesser cars. They also were winning more regularly at an earlier age than Schumacher giving themselves the time to beat his record

    Schumacher drove in an era where the calendar was only 17 races long and it was only at the end of his career that it moved to 19 races. So both Vettel and Hamilton have 10% more grand prixs to compete in and possibly win than Schumacher did

    So it was an incredible to be achieving 8 wins or more in the old calendar but now this is more likely with more races
     
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  14. Olivier

    Olivier Race Winner

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    Thank you for that Greenlantern101 . So it's not that there are more races these days, only that it feels that way
     
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  15. Dario Resta

    Dario Resta Podium Finisher

    I seriously doubt that Michael's records and achievements are foremost in the Schumacher family's thoughts right now. Records come and go, but I'm pretty sure they would happily give them all up to have Michael back as a father, husband,brother and son.
     
  16. erinha

    erinha Test Driver

    It's unlikely for both of them imo, because of each other.
     
  17. Incubus

    Incubus Champion Elect

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    ------------------------------

    But there was one extra race in 1995 to make it 17 at a time when the norm was 16, and one less race this year when there should have been 20.
    Transpose that into an average F1 driver's career these days and you easily end up with an extra 60 Grand Prix raced in compared to what it would have been like in the late eighties/nineties period, , which amounts to quite a lot. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
  18. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    Jim Clark competed in 8 seasons plus one race before his death. That totalled 73 races! How times change!!
     
  19. Incubus

    Incubus Champion Elect

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    Not strctly true though. I mean they were just as many non-championship F1 Grand Prix as championship ones back then, and because drivers tended to race in other disciplines as well they probably took part in just as many if not more races than they do today.

    Innit.
     
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  20. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    But the non-championship races wouldn't show in the drivers records, which makes comparing records from different eras a useless exercise.

    I thought the season being shorter back then thereby allowing the drivers to compete in other events (Indy 500, Le Mans etc) was much better than the current situation.

    I met a large number of the great drivers of the 60s because they frequently competed in the Tasman series (God, how I miss that!). It was great, being able to meet your idols when you are a youngster. I even got to water ski with Jim Clark, which had me over the moon as a 10 year old!
     
  21. Incubus

    Incubus Champion Elect

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    ***STUPID JOKE ALERT***

    Really? That's incredible! Even Neil Armstrong had to wait till he was 40 before he got anywhere near.
     

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