Narain Karthikeyan

Discussion in 'Drivers' started by RasputinLives, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    The point I was making was that he was always going to finish last so what would it have mattered if he'd stopped at the end of the start/finish straight, let the leaders through and then gone on his merry way.
     
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  3. ExtremeNinja

    ExtremeNinja Karting amateur Contributor

    I know. ;)
     
  4. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    :thumbsup:
     
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  5. teabagyokel

    teabagyokel #dejavu Valued Member

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    Didn't one of the Caterhams, somewhere, see a gaggle if cars in his mirrors and drive through the pits?
     
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  6. ExtremeNinja

    ExtremeNinja Karting amateur Contributor

    Wow. That is that sportsmanship thing. There's a thread somewhere on here suggesting that it doesn't exist any more.
     
  7. Kewee

    Kewee Race Winner

    Karthikenyan knew he would be lapped during the race and asked Charlie Whiting about turns 3 to 7 as it's impossible to move over before turn 8. He was told by Whiting he didn't have to move over until he had cleared turns 3 to 7. He moved over coming out of turn 7 allowing Vettel through at turn 8. He did nothing wrong.
     
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  8. ExtremeNinja

    ExtremeNinja Karting amateur Contributor

    Is that from the driver's briefing? We don't normally get to hear what goes on in there but that seems very credible.
     
  9. Kewee

    Kewee Race Winner

    I'm unsure whether it was from the briefing or a personal conversation between Whiting and Karthikenyan though I suspect the question was asked by Karthikenyan at the briefing. It is reported on the Autosport website which is always reliable, in fact I think it's fair to say Autosport don't got to print until a story is factual.
     
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  10. ExtremeNinja

    ExtremeNinja Karting amateur Contributor

    Good stuff Kewee. That clears that up.
     
  11. Kewee

    Kewee Race Winner

    ExtremeNinja.... Cheers Ninja
     
  12. Slyboogy

    Slyboogy World Champion Contributor

    I've noticed that Khartikeyan takes quite a bit longer than the rest of the backmarkers to get out of the way, I've often found myself nearly shouting at him to get out of the way as he is quite reckless.

    After the turns in question he wasn't that quick to get out of the way.

    I think ignoring 4 blue flags is too much, should be 2.
     
  13. mnmracer

    mnmracer Points Scorer

    Does anyone actually know WHERE Vettel caught up with Karthikeyan?

    Judging RB's comments, Vettel was on his tail in turn 2, where there were plenty of overtakes, so definitely a chance to respect the blue flag. If that's true, Narain could have most certainly done more to respect 'the blue'.

    I understand you can't vanish into thin air, and despite his antics this year, I have a bit of a soft spot for Narain, but it can't be coincidental that it's Karthikeyan who seems to cause most problems for the front runners. Are we to believe he is the one that somehow always finds himself in the wrong spot, or is he just a bit more stubborn?
     
  14. Gingy

    Gingy Banned

    It looked like it was in sector 1 just before the DRS straight, while BBC commentators were critical of Karthikayan it is firstly a difficult part of the track to be looking in mirrors and navigating the s-bends albeit in a HRT which is not the safest car to drive. While yes it is unfortunate it does happen, I remember a back marker holding up Alonso at Turn 2 in Canada allowing Button to pass in 2010, such is life but the race goes on.
     
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  15. Kewee

    Kewee Race Winner

    Regarding when Vettel was caught by Karthikenyan it was just prior to turn 3. Autosport states Vettel was held up "BRIEFLY" through the sequence of turns 3 to 7. I think far too much is made of this in an attempt to apportion blame. The difficulties all the lapped drivers have is having to drive other peoples cars as well as their own, in other word having to drive on their mirrors. They simply cannot be watching their mirrors constantly, they do have their own cars to race. The leading drivers need to realize the back markers also have a difficult situation to deal with when they're being lapped and in most cases do their best not to impede the leading cars. In other words regarding Karthikenyan, cut him a little slack.
     
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  16. Viscount

    Viscount Pole Sitter Contributor

    It was a little more than briefly in my opinion. Looking at the lap times and time gaps between the cars throughout the race, I don't think Hamilton would have overtaken Vettel without him getting caught up behind Karthikeyan. Hamilton stayed within 3.281s of Vettel throughout the race but could never make the move and Vettel managed to keep him behind for 41 laps. The lap Vettel was overtaken he lost 1.896s dropping to a 1:42.746 (lap 42) from a 1:40.850 (lap 41), whereas Hamilton barely affected was only 0.001s slower than his previous lap. Then Vettel stayed within 1.822 for the remainder of the race.

    Once he reached Turn 3, Karthikeyan didn't do anything wrong at all, but looking at how close they were just before that he could have released them at any point after Turn 20 and before Turn 3 without affecting the lead battle or affecting his own race anymore than letting them through were he did. So from Vettel and Red Bull's perspective it's pretty understably frustrating when one small moment due to another driver costs you a race win and potentially his battle for the championship.

    Turn 20:
    Turn 20.jpg

    Turn 1:
    Turn 1.jpg
     
  17. Kewee

    Kewee Race Winner

    Viscount......The top image you've posted is very telling. At that time Vettel would have been braking for turn 1 while Karthikenyan was accelerating towards turn 2. Although Vettel was much quicker than Karthikenyan there is no way he would have been on Karthikenyan's tail before turn 3 and there would also be no way Karthikenyan would have sighted him before then. The mirrors on an F1 car are damn near useless. He quite possibly would have seen a car in the distance behind him as he accelerated along the straight towards turn one but he also probably had no idea who it was at that point. His team would have no doubt warned him of Vettel and Hamilton approaching, but not necessarily until he had reached turn one or two.
    The word briefly was taken from the Autosport report. I'm not suggesting Vettel and Red Bull shouldn't feel frustrated, of course they should, but blame shouldn't be leveled at Karthikenyan, which appears to be the view many insiders and journalists share.
     
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  18. Viscount

    Viscount Pole Sitter Contributor

    Kewee the top image was Turn 20 and the bottom was Turn 1 in my post above, just added the labels.

    I've just had another look at the race and the blue flag/light was flashing on the side coming into Turn 1 which would have also meant it was flashing on Karthikeyan's wheel so he would've known faster cars were close behind. To be fair he can pass 3 flags before letting them through, but he knew he wouldn't be able to left them through between Turns 3 & 7 and also that they'd close in very quickly in that section in superior machinery.

    Here's the blue light coming into Turn 1 (apologies for the poor quality):
    T1 Blue.jpg

    T1.jpg
     
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  19. Kewee

    Kewee Race Winner

    Viscount......My apologies, I mistook the top image for turn one. In saying that I'm amazed Vettel wasn't all over Karthikenyan by the end of the main straight. I do still stand by my previous postings though. All the criticisms aimed at Karthikenyan are coming from fans, the stewards have made no comment on the incident nor have they issued any warnings so clearly they are happy Karthikenyan did nothing wrong. I will make one other comment. In the past there have been some very serious accidents caused by a driver slowing unexpectedly resulting in a faster car becoming airborne when the following driver was taken by surprise. It's only my opinion but I believe drivers should always race at their normal speed, making room for cars that are lapping them when they're able to safely. Imagine how messy things could have been had Karthikenyan slowed suddenly to let Vettel past but was unsighted by Hamilton due to Vettel's car obscuring his view of Karthikenyan. It's precisely that type of situation that has caused massive accidents in the past. Drivers need predictability in front of them, not a lapped driver doing the unexpected.
     
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  20. Viscount

    Viscount Pole Sitter Contributor

    Kewee I do pretty much agree with you since Karthikeyan technically didn't do anything wrong, but as he was in control of the situation he could have made the whole scenario a lot easier for everyone involved. Though it's easy to say this in hindsight, as a driver who has been passed probably more than 100 times this season alone he should have evaluated the situation better at the time.
     
  21. Brogan

    Brogan Leg end Staff Member

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    111 to be precise (although that's all GPs, not this season alone) :)

    http://cliptheapex.com/overtaking/drivers/narain-karthikeyan.762/

    If you filter on 2012, it's 54 this season so far.

    The same number as Schumacher, but less than half the amount of Kovalainen (since we started doing detailed breakdowns).
     
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