Canopies should not be on the list at all.
Poll Is it time for cockpit canopies ?
- Thread starter Greenlantern101
- Start date
Who was talking about recovery helicopters on here? Somebody stole the idea: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/318123/swiss-firm-wants-helicopter-to-recover-cars/
If you take away all of the safety and logistical nightmare of flying a helicopter during a GP weekend (did you know that for one weekend of the year during the British GP the airspace over Silverstone is the busiest in the country, including that around Heathrow and Gatwick) it would be the best solution. There are pilots out there that can and would happily remove a car within minutes if given the chance. There is one pilot I know who could happily lift the car without stopping given the appropriate equipment and get it right 99 times out of 100.
The issue comes with airspace, weather, safety on the ground under a hovering machine, down draft and a whole host of other issues that are not taken into account when doing this type of thing on paper. If you just take into account the air traffic control over Silverstone during a GP weekend, I can say from personal experience that take of and landing of helicopters in that area goes a little like this :-
ATC - Pilot 1, lift and go...
5 second pause
ATC - Pilot 2, lift and go...
and that runs most of the day for both take off and landing, and if you are not in the right place within that 5 second pause you are back to he bottom of the queue to go again. At which point do you have time to respond to additional stress and control process for a recovery vehicle?
Not going to happen even on a good weather day in my opinion...
The issue comes with airspace, weather, safety on the ground under a hovering machine, down draft and a whole host of other issues that are not taken into account when doing this type of thing on paper. If you just take into account the air traffic control over Silverstone during a GP weekend, I can say from personal experience that take of and landing of helicopters in that area goes a little like this :-
ATC - Pilot 1, lift and go...
5 second pause
ATC - Pilot 2, lift and go...
and that runs most of the day for both take off and landing, and if you are not in the right place within that 5 second pause you are back to he bottom of the queue to go again. At which point do you have time to respond to additional stress and control process for a recovery vehicle?
Not going to happen even on a good weather day in my opinion...
On the helicopter issue. obviously the busiest times will be before and after the race but is there a restriction on take-offs/landings during the actual race? Apart from His Bernieships would anyone be allowed to leave the GP as surely any precedence has to be given to the medical helicopter plus the TV chopper.
As for weather conditions, cars are more likely to go off track when the weather is more extreme so would helicopters be suitable in the limited visibility conditions?
As for weather conditions, cars are more likely to go off track when the weather is more extreme so would helicopters be suitable in the limited visibility conditions?
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
Considering the helicopter(s) providing the aerial footage are buzzing around pretty much all over the place during the race, I'd like to think they suspend passenger flights for the duration of the race.
Also regarding weather, generally a race won't be run if medical helicopters can't fly anyhow. The exception is Suzuka where the hospital is virtually next door reducing the need for medical helicopters. The helicopter was available that day anyway but of course it was deemed more beneficial to transport Jules by road vehicle that time.
The cars would need some sort of universal fitting for lifting. They have such a fitting already for crane lifts but this would probably need to be re-engineered for helicopter pick-up. They could even keep the driver in the car!
Also regarding weather, generally a race won't be run if medical helicopters can't fly anyhow. The exception is Suzuka where the hospital is virtually next door reducing the need for medical helicopters. The helicopter was available that day anyway but of course it was deemed more beneficial to transport Jules by road vehicle that time.
The cars would need some sort of universal fitting for lifting. They have such a fitting already for crane lifts but this would probably need to be re-engineered for helicopter pick-up. They could even keep the driver in the car!
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Taking off and landing from a purpose built pad away from the circuit is much less hazardous than hovering over a gravel trap where there are marshals, driver(s) plus spectators in close proximity.
In the pre race program for Japan Sky did a feature where Ted watched the helicopter take off and even though he was some distance away he was pelted with grit and that was from a clear surface, I'd hate to see the effect of rotor wash on a gravel trap.
In the pre race program for Japan Sky did a feature where Ted watched the helicopter take off and even though he was some distance away he was pelted with grit and that was from a clear surface, I'd hate to see the effect of rotor wash on a gravel trap.
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Using a helicopter to clear vehicles is an excellent idea, right up to the point where you actually start thinking, at which point it becomes obvious that it is a laughably poor idea. The focus needs to change from removing the vehicle to making it as safe as possible, as quickly and as safely as possible, while remaining in situ.
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I think it's OK up to a point. That point is, that in a heavy crash the cockpit release mechanism is just one more thing to get damaged. Then you have the nightmare of trying to get an injured driver out,and you can't get oxygen to him, or pain relief. A bad situation, made doubly bad.
There is a reason that they don't have cockpit covers.
There is a reason that they don't have cockpit covers.
snowy
Champion Elect
There were many who wouldn't take up safety belts because they preferred their chances outside the cockpit.
Le Mans, BTCC, DTM and other racing series have "cockpit covers", AKA tin top cars, so I don't really understand the safety related arguments.
I would prefer it if F1 and other similar series remained open cockpit, but I can see the inevitable happening at some point.
I would prefer it if F1 and other similar series remained open cockpit, but I can see the inevitable happening at some point.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
I think the new 'halo' type idea is really good. A bit weird-looking but better than a dead driver.
The difference is they have doors.
Canopies are extremely unlikely to be progressed IMO. Not just because of the above, there are various obstacles. They will almost certainly end up with something in-between like the halo Rufus mentioned.
So add a door.
Once again F1 is suffering from an identity crisis and an attack of conscience.
If it wants to remain an open cockpit formula then the inherent risk related to that will have to be accepted.
If it wants to eliminate or mitigate the risk, make it closed cockpit, with doors if necessary.
Once again F1 is suffering from an identity crisis and an attack of conscience.
If it wants to remain an open cockpit formula then the inherent risk related to that will have to be accepted.
If it wants to eliminate or mitigate the risk, make it closed cockpit, with doors if necessary.
Why don't we simply mitigate the risk by having the pit limiter enabled 100% of the race, then the drivers can't go quick enough to get themselves in trouble. 
Or we could just recognize that motorsport is inherently dangerous and that the tragedies that have occurred are still a tiny fraction of races that have occurred without injury or death.
Or we could just recognize that motorsport is inherently dangerous and that the tragedies that have occurred are still a tiny fraction of races that have occurred without injury or death.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
Why don't we simply mitigate the risk by having the pit limiter enabled 100% of the race, then the drivers can't go quick enough to get themselves in trouble.
If it's inherently dangerous then why have any safety aids whatsoever? The driver will know the risks so it'll be their fault if they get hurt or die.
I think you've missed the thrust of my point, which was if you take a statistical view of all the deaths and/or injuries in motorsport then my understanding would be that drivers being hit in the head by debris would be a tiny fraction of those incidents, so why not look at the larger causes of the incidents as a priority?
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