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FIA Engine Mapping clarification a-comin'

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by ZakspeedYakspeed, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. ZakspeedYakspeed

    ZakspeedYakspeed NeverUnderestimateThePredictabilityOfStupidity Premium Contributor

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    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101476

    As sure as night follows day...

    From article...
    "Even if the FIA rule clarification does mean Red Bull Racing has to make changes to its engine maps, it should be a fairly simply matter for the team to revert to settings that it used without problem earlier in the campaign."

    Translated into ... solid 4th and 7th places up for grabs now !!

    Will be interested to see what Messr Newey and Co. have up their collective sleeves to reclaim some of this lost ground...
     
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  3. Brogan

    Brogan Running Man Staff Member

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    This has been yet another farce.

    Red Bull were referred by the FIA technical delegate to the stewards as Jo Bauer deemed the car to be illegal.
    The Stewards disagreed with the team's/Renault''s explanation but allowed them to race as the wording of the rules was inadequate.

    It's very sad that F1 has devolved into this state where a team of lawyers is needed to pick over the reg's and identify any loopholes, which subsequently results in ever tightening of the rules.

    I know it has always happened to a certain extent but Red Bull seem to have taken it to a whole new level; the flexing front wing being another example.

    I doubt it will make too much difference and if it does, no doubt Red Bull have another loophole they can exploit to counter it.
     
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  4. teabagyokel

    teabagyokel #bringbackmaldo Valued Member

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    They should not have started.
     
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  5. Johnny Carwash

    Johnny Carwash Champion Elect Contributor

    Another farce that does nothing for the reputation of the FIA. It's about time that the FIA set regulations that are set in stone. Then if a car is found to have anything illegal on it, then it should be banned.
     
    rufus_mcdufus and Jen like this.
  6. ZakspeedYakspeed

    ZakspeedYakspeed NeverUnderestimateThePredictabilityOfStupidity Premium Contributor

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    :yawn:

    every team does it...to the full extent... the ones that almost 99.9% get caught out are dobbed in by other teams who are thinking "why the :censored: didn't we think of that"... and if the "item" is deemed legal are copying it....

    If anyone is at fault here it is Jo Bauer... I mean... get a wriggle on... your brother Jack has saved the world seven times over in 24hours a throw...
     
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  7. Josh

    Josh Champion Elect

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    teabagyokel Why? Because they've found a loophole and used it, just like Brawn and Toyota and Williams with the double diffuser and McLaren with the F-Duct? Oh, and Mercedes with the double DRS?
     
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  8. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    All of this type of thing reminds me of the old post-race interview of many years ago:

    Reporter: "What do you think of today's winner, Driver X?"
    Driver Y: "He cheats"
    Reporter; "How do you know he cheats?"
    Driver Y: "Because I cheat and he beats me!"

    Race teams always have and always will be creative in their interpretation of rules.
     
    Speshal, Mezzer, teabagyokel and 4 others like this.
  9. F1 Shift.net

    F1 Shift.net Points Scorer

    One of my favorite parts of F1 is seeing how the engineers interpret the rule book. I love seeing guys stretch the rules. That being said, when they go too past the rule book, which Red Bull seem to at times, that's when I have a problem. It's very difficult to know when that line is crossed. However, if there are loopholes, fix them for the next year, don't be changing rules mid-season
     
    ZakspeedYakspeed likes this.
  10. Brogan

    Brogan Running Man Staff Member

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    In this case I don't believe the reg's are being changed.
    It's just a very badly worded reg' which has allowed it to be exploited in this manner.
     
    ZakspeedYakspeed likes this.
  11. no-FIAt-please

    no-FIAt-please Champion Elect Premium Contributor

    (Taken from Autosport)


    Well if they didn't agree and didn't accept Red Bull's explanations then why were they allowed to race and keep their points? Ridiculous. This also isn't from a biased stand point, I'm just annoyed that the stewards were so undecisive when simple analysis shows that if the stewards don't buy RB's excuses then they are clearly in breach of the rules
     
  12. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Once again. I find myself having to post these prophetic words from the late great Colin Chapman

    "If one does not clean it up, Formula One will end up in a quagmire of plagiarism, chicanery and petty rule interpretation forced by lobbies manipulated by people for whom the word sport has no meaning.'

    Extract of a letter to FISA dictated to Jabby Crombac by Colin Chapman - 1981.
     
  13. Kewee

    Kewee Race Winner

    A couple of points I hope are worth making. There is an enormous difference between coming up with a technical innovation that stretches the rules right to the limit but doesn't cross them, that's called clever designing and engineering. Tweaking the electronics that control engine performance parameters, then distorting the wording of the rules, knowing your crossing the line regarding the intent of the regulations is quite simply cheating. Christian Horner has made his same tired statement that when your cars are quick the other teams will always protest. He needs to be reminded that it wasn't the other teams that drew this issue to the attention of the stewards, it was the FIA. Their entire attitude regarding this smacks of that Red Bull arrogance so many of us have become familiar with. The same could be said for Vettels pass on Hamilton. They had ample time to tell him to give the position back but chose not to. It was a ruling that had been clarified at the pre race briefing and all the teams were told it would be inforced. Red Bull knew they had broken the rules, but hey, lets ignore it anyway and try and get away with it later. I'm starting to hope that Red Bull won't be in the running at the end of this season. It would be far more satisfying for me to see a McLaren/Hamilton-Ferrari/Alonso battle. At least we would know they would be playing within the rules.
     
  14. Kewee

    Kewee Race Winner

    One more follow up point. Considering the stewards weren't completely happy with Red Bulls explanation, you can be sure if this whole unfortunate episode had taken place at any GP other than Germany, they would have been starting from the rear of the field or pit lane. Thankfully their race result wasn't great.
     
  15. tranquility2k9

    tranquility2k9 Podium Finisher

    Wow that is just an awesome post. I couldn't have written it any better! *high five* lol
     
  16. Josh

    Josh Champion Elect

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    What makes you say that? Kewee
     
  17. Kewee

    Kewee Race Winner

    Austrian owner, German World Champion, I can hear the uproar had they been relegated to the back of the grid before the race had even started. I said exactly the same thing on this site before the stewards had made their ruling so I wasn't surprised they were allowed to start from their normal grid positions. :rolleyes:
     
  18. tranquility2k9

    tranquility2k9 Podium Finisher

    I don't see how the German fans could uproar if their drivers team was caught cheating.
     
    rufus_mcdufus likes this.
  19. Dario Resta

    Dario Resta Podium Finisher

    I have to agree with this. The British tabloids are full of "Red Bull cheat". No they don't, they try (like every other team tries) to exploit any tiny loophole in the regs. If nobody else manages to do it, tough - close the loopholes or shut up. They all pay clever people WAY too much money to circumvent the "spirit" of the rules, and if they don't manage it then they hired the wrong people.The usual whinge is coming now, because McLaren are losing out at the moment . Why anyone sees this as the "British" team is beyond me. It's been going on for years, even with no British driver in the team in the past.

    We even had Vettel passing Button by "cheating" in the Murdoch rag on Monday. No he didn't, he used the track like a lot of others in the race, including Alonso. Did he gain an advantage - contrary to his opinion on driving on a painted surface? - of course. Stop sticking stupid tarmac runoffs all over the place, and shove some sand/gravel traps in, or a barrier .There's no danger on a corner like that as it's a traction zone, no-one's going to barrel off at high speed.

    On the engine mapping, the same again - there's a grey area the FIA allowed to exist, so although Jo Bauer's concern is probably legitimate, they had to be allowed to race. Either write the rules properly or **** off.
     
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  20. racecub

    racecub Champion Elect

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    Undoubtably there are grey areas in the rules, and all teams will try to take advantage of this. And the FIA are notoriously bad at creating a level playing field because they either cant help having favourites, and teams they dont like, or they are just not good at policing their rules. So on this engine mapping:dunno:Here we go again, like Silverstone last year....a mess! (So what gonna happen, anyone know??)
    On that Vettel manoeuvre, he was clearly in the wrong, no question there. Yes it would be better if the tracks themselves punished such manoeuvres...but they dont, and in this case the stewards got it right.
     
    Dario Resta likes this.
  21. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    I don't see how the FIA can differentiate between "engine mapping" and "fuel settings". If you lean out an engine to save fuel without changing numerous other performance perameters, the result will be burned valves and a DNF. Ergo, changing fuel setting is also engine mapping.
     
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