Grand Prix 2012 Australian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Gentleman, start your engines

Despite it feeling only a few weeks since the season ending Brazilian Grand Prix last November the Australian Grand Prix is coming very quickly into view to start of a season which hopefully promises to be a lot closer than the 2011 season where Sebastian Vettel ran away with the Championship and had it virtually won by mid season.

Looking at testing and it is virtually impossible to see who is in the best shape going into the season opener apart from that Mclaren and Red Bull are the two teams in the best shape which really isn't surprising but the big surprise is the continual lack of pace from Ferrari despite a radical new car (the issues I commented on on a previous thread).

As for the midfield it is anyone's guess as all the midfield have all been up and down the testing rankings throughout the winter and it'll only be qualifying where we see a true reflection of where the grid is in terms of reliability. Without a doubt Lotus have had the most work to do after they had to make a major chassis change involving suspension mounts which meant abandoning one of the test sessions but that doesn't seem to have had a major effect on the team and with Kimi Raikkonen at the wheel it is hoped that they can challenge Mercedes after a fairly disappointing 2011 after a strong start.

Once again HRT are the joke of the entire grid as they once again go into the first race of the season without having so much as turned the wheel before after crash test problems earlier this year and it will be a miracle if they actually qualify as they failed to do so in Melbourne in 2011, but they could be joined by Marussia who have also had problems with their new car and have had to test with a modified 2011 car recently and they will also be struggling to even qualify for Melbourne which isn't good news for the team unless they can pull a rabbit out of the hat with the new car.

This seasons cars (apart from Mclaren) are characterised by the distinctive stepped nose due to new regulations about front wing height and this is how the vast majority of teams have interpreted this rule and it seems that only Mclaren are running a 'smooth' nose and it remains to be seen whether this was a correct decision and one that can mean they can challenge for the title after an average 2011 (unless you're Button of course)

For the British viewers 2012 is going to be a completely different viewing experience as Formula One is going to be broadcast on satellite television for the first time. When it was announced that Sky would be broadcasting F1 with BBC showing only half of the races (live) it was met with uproar from all quarters but as more details have been announced, many fans (me included) are rather looking forward to the full F1 package that is being provided this season with the F1 channel being launched in a matter of days!

For Galahads brilliant circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/melbourne-grand-prix-circuit-albert-park/

 

[GeoffP]

If Vettel would have had to wait another lap to be brought in, then he would have lost many positions behind the SC, wouldn't he? He might have regained these positions, but nevertheless, that's what I was implying

Ah - I understand now, in my little world I thought you meant he'd have lost position on the track without a safety car - you can imagine my confusion!

 

[EvilWhippet]

Your overall posting history led me to my conclusion.

But if you'd rather have people believe that you seriously respect a performance which should have resulted in 3 more points than Williams scored ALL of last season, but then didn't because of a fruitless effort to harry a double WDC in a non-overtaking spot, then by all means contnue this nonsensical theme.

I don't agree with your opinion on Pastor's weekend, but respect your right to have one.

Apologies - I got slightly riled up - and slightly missed the gist you were going for! However, I would still like to defend both Maldo and Senna - many people have said that neither deserve their seats in F1 - I would argue that both of them are perfectly deserving - yes Senna had a wretched weekend, but so does everyone. - But I think what some people are going to do is say "Maldonado is a pay driver, therefore he is rubbish", then say "Maldo beat Senna this weekend, therefore Senna is rubbish". - Since the first statement is patently not true, then that makes the second statement arguably not true!

Fair play, it is only the first race and I expect afew teammate differences to be closed in the next few races - the Williams drivers included. Although I also agree with Rasputin on their percieved level of ability.

 

[GermanF1]

Ah - I understand now, in my little world I thought you meant he'd have lost position on the track without a safety car - you can imagine my confusion!

Nevermind, I assumed that this was what you understood. And it would most definetly have been a strange thing to say

 

[Mephistopheles]

Given Jenson's pace who thinks he could have won even if he hadn't passed Lewis into the corner?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I have absolutely no idea. My gut tells me no, as it did before the race. However, there was so little between Lewis and Jenson - that could not easily be explained away by matters of circumstance - that both potential outcomes would be just as plausible in retrospect.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I have absolutely no idea. My gut tells me no, as it did before the race. However, there was so little between Lewis and Jenson - that could not easily be explained away by matters of circumstance - that both potential outcomes would be just as plausible in retrospect.

Yeah your right forget I asked such a dumb wum type of question...

I would delete it but it would disrupt the flow of the thread now. so message to everyone: Don't bother answering.....

I'm an idiot...

 

[ExtremeNinja]

That's made me laugh, a lot.

It's a fair question, just a dangerous one which can only be answered with nuetrality or uneducated guesswork, not to mention through personal bias.

 

[Kewee]

Yeah your right forget I asked such a dumb wum type of question...

I would delete it but it would disrupt the flow of the thread now. so message to everyone: Don't bother answering.....

I'm an idiot...

No your not.

 

[racecub]

Given Jenson's pace who thinks he could have won even if he hadn't passed Lewis into the corner?

I doubt it. Especially as the Mclarens were in fuel saving mode for most of the race. Lewis would just have turned the wick up, which is presumabley what jenson. Lewis also defends well.

 

[Bill Boddy]

So Hamilton turns up the wick instead of fuel saving. What happens later on when he is desperate for fuel? It was Button's weekend, next weekend who knows?

 

[Brogan]

Based on what I saw and the lap times, etc. I think Button would have got past Hamilton within the first few laps, most likely in a DRS zone, after DRS has been activated of course.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I also think Button would have passed Lewis within the first 9 laps, he was clearly a lot faster, and Lewis would have known this and yielded

 

[tranquility2k9]

I also think Button would have passed Lewis within the first 9 laps, he was clearly a lot faster, and Lewis would have known this and yielded

I too think this is a distinct possibility but that also it would have been very hard for Button to pass. Melbourne is not easy to pass on, even with DRS. The McLaren looked like it was struggling in dirty air and even without DRS, if Lewis used all his KERS on the straights he could still get a good top speed. Jenson would have most likely played the long game and dropped back a little because in dirty air, the tyres degrade much more, as Lewis found out behind Vettel in the final stint. If that would have been the case, Jenson would have been in the same position as Lewis and as both of their tyres went off around about laps 15 - 17 then they both would have pitted then but Lewis would have got to come in first and Jenson may well have ended up behind traffic as Lewis did.

There was actually no evidence on the medium harder compound that Lewis was any slower than Jenson. Once he got past the traffic he was 11 seconds behind but if anything he closed that gap slightly, he didn't fall away and they both pitted on the same lap. During the final stint, Lewis looked faster than vettel for the first 6 or 7 laps, as Vettel himself said, but then his tyres dropped off due to him hustling the car in Vettel's dirty air. Therefore there is no evidence to suggest Lewis could not have pulled away as Jenson did as in all likelyhood he would have.

I suppose what I am saying is looking at it from that perspective, it is conceivable that Lewis would have won the race had he lead from the first corner. He may have just had bad pace on that 1st set of options for whatever reason, but he actually looked OK on the medium compound.

It is obvious Jenson had better race pace overall, especially on the soft tyres, but if you build in the factors that hurt Lewis most and apply them to Jenson then this may have been enough to allow Lewis to win even if on that day he was slightly slower.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Tranq, I could not agree more. Some odd synchronicity of thought between us today. I may just shut up, let you do the talking, and just like all of your posts.

 

[Slyboogy]

Not a bad race, set my alarm up, went to bed at 3am, alarm went off, I thought I got up, woke up at 8 o'clock asking myself why am I here?! So had watch the race at 1am last night as I went to work, but I have to say, Sky's extra 30 minutes before and after the show is pointless.

I have to say, I'm surprised I managed to last the whole day not knowing the result, and not to see a McLaren 1-2 was pleasing.

Mercedes...tut tut tut *shakes head* I had a high hopes, we don't know what Schumacher could have done, but he certainly didn't have the pace as the McLaren's or Red Bull's as Vettel's pace was much better than his. Rosberg just faded away after his greatstart, I am still unsure what happened at the end with him as there was no coverage of it apart from him locking up into fourth last turn.

Button raced well, think the Pirelli tyres really suit him, but they said he had a great start? I thought both McLaren's drivers had a poor start, Button mentioned this aswell. I don't know if this fuel issue is a bluff or not...

Maldonado I have to say drove very very well, and I think for me he's in contention of driver of the weekend. Qualified the car well, but was mentioned it was because of the Ferrari's and a Lotus being out of position, but he was up there in 6th for most of the race, until that very nasty shunt!

Force India I thought where disappointing, talk of them of having a very good car? Well Di Resta was very lucky to finish in 10th.

I thought both Toro Rosso drivers where quite poor, I think that car is a very good one judging by it's race pace and qualifying results, but they made several mistakes, but you can say they are inexperienced, but I think the last two drivers would have got the car up there where Maldonado was. Might be contradicting myself here a bit, I don't know if Ricciardo came through the field or not, but if he did he recovered well, but then again, the safety car and both slow Saubers certainly aided that.

Both Sauber drivers should get a pitstop zone, as I think they are quite dangerous, there's always a que of cars behind them and an accident always waiting to happen, but then that's racing

Raikkonen drove well, think like Hamilton he was caught out by the safety car as he lost several positions after his pitstop.

Alonso is just like a dog with rabies...always dangerous

I thought fair dinkum (Webber) raced pretty well today, for once it wasn't him bumping into cars.

The DRS zone was heavily critcized, especially for having two activation points, but even then it was still quite hard to overtake, so they got something right there

Is it just me, or everyone that qualified well had a terrible race? Hulkenberg, Gross Jeans, Maldonado (well he was having a good race, but the result wasn't good), Schumacher etc.

Good race, but I hope McLaren aren't way ahead as it's been reported.
Almost forgot, I enjoyed Vettel's move over Rosberg, you hardly see a car dive down the inside of another at that turn let alone round the outside.

 

[Galahad]

Rosberg made contact with Perez on the back straight on the last lap, giving the Mercedes a rear puncture. Sergio's front wing was also damaged.

I will also mention that Maldonado went off into the gravel at Turn 6 on lap five and lost two places, so it was hardly a flawless drive notwithstanding the final lap shunt. We don't really know how quick that Williams is yet, if we ever will.

 

[steveg]

I too think this is a distinct possibility but that also it would have been very hard for Button to pass. Melbourne is not easy to pass on, even with DRS. The McLaren looked like it was struggling in dirty air and even without DRS, if Lewis used all his KERS on the straights he could still get a good top speed. Jenson would have most likely played the long game and dropped back a little because in dirty air, the tyres degrade much more, as Lewis found out behind Vettel in the final stint. If that would have been the case, Jenson would have been in the same position as Lewis and as both of their tyres went off around about laps 15 - 17 then they both would have pitted then but Lewis would have got to come in first and Jenson may well have ended up behind traffic as Lewis did.

There was actually no evidence on the medium harder compound that Lewis was any slower than Jenson. Once he got past the traffic he was 11 seconds behind but if anything he closed that gap slightly, he didn't fall away and they both pitted on the same lap. During the final stint, Lewis looked faster than vettel for the first 6 or 7 laps, as Vettel himself said, but then his tyres dropped off due to him hustling the car in Vettel's dirty air. Therefore there is no evidence to suggest Lewis could not have pulled away as Jenson did as in all likelyhood he would have.

I hear what u're saying and you are probably spot on - in fact I feel much better after reading your post. In years gone by you could hope for the driver in front to make a mistake or for the car to suffer problems but such is the quality of the field and reliability at the moment one tiny mistake is all it takes to ruin your race. As a Hamilton fan hopefully his superior speed in quali will get him ahead of Button and stay ahead in most of the races to come.

On a side note all this tyre management does my head in. Many may disagree but I want to be on the edge of my seat seeing racers like Hamilton execute their God given racing talents. Instead of Vettel being hustled and bustled by a rampaging yellow helmet in the closing stages of the race he had it all too easy as Hamilton instead had to drop back and nurse the tyres home like little Miss Daisy. Whilst tyres have always been a part of F1 surely it's about getting the balance right and at the end of the day speed and balls out racing should be king.

 

[johnnoble1990]

Based on what I saw and the lap times, etc. I think Button would have got past Hamilton within the first few laps, most likely in a DRS zone, after DRS has been activated of course.

Hard to say stuff like this for certain. Though there was overtaking in the race, it was still clearly difficult for evenly matched cars to pass. If we assume Jenson would've posted same lap times in the early laps, then it is safe to say he'd have got past, but you'd expect Hamilton leading and Jenson behind would've knocked a few tenths off Lewis and a few onto Jenson.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I will also mention that Maldonado went off into the gravel at Turn 6 on lap five and lost two places, so it was hardly a flawless drive notwithstanding the final lap shunt.

Which makes his overall performance in getting into that position up Alonso's gearbox all the more impressive. If he hadn't had that foray over the Astroturf earlier, he may well have ended up ahead of Fernando instead of behind him.

We don't really know how quick that Williams is yet, if we ever will.

Don't quite understand why you say that. We've only had one race, in which Maldonado has already demonstrated the the Williams has some pace (he was after all, chasing down a Ferrari driven by the reputed 'most complete driver on the grid', so I have every hope that he can continue that form and improve on it. And Senna had a poor meeting - he showed promise in Q1, I'm not sure why he was then outshone by his team mate, and then he was somewhat unfortunate to be bashed about from behind at the start of the race, from which he never really recovered. I'm sure he will have better weekends ahead, where he can demonstrate the potential of the car.

 

[racecub]

Gary Anderson's view

"In my opinion, Button plans a race better than Hamilton, while Hamilton is better at driving by the seat of his pants. So a one-off special qualifying lap is Hamilton's speciality.

I think Button concentrated more on the car with race levels of fuel in it and made sure he knew what the car was going to do in that state. Button's race pace was faster than Hamilton's but they wore their tyres out at the same pace. If you're going to drive slowly to look after the tyres, you're going to get beaten. So what you need is the set-up to allow you to drive quickly at the same time, which is what Button had.

Hamilton didn't look a happy bunny after the race, but he didn't do much wrong. He just didn't get quite enough right, and then the safety car caught him out.
He would probably have held on to second place if it had not been for that. It would have been hard for Sebastian Vettel to pass him in conventional fashion using the DRS overtaking aid because the McLaren was faster on the straights.

McLaren called the first pit stops too late. They dropped a second, then another second and then they brought Button in. Hamilton had to wait another lap and that lost him four seconds. That would be my biggest disappointment in the team if I was him. McLaren got away with that because they were so strong in the first stint, while Vettel was still battling past other cars. It was no-one's fault that Vettel passed Hamilton when the safety car was deployed.

McLaren stopped their cars on the same lap, which they could do because Button had a big enough margin to Hamilton, who could in straight afterwards without losing time. But when the safety car came out almost immediately afterwards, Vettel was inside the last circuit sector so could keep the hammer down.
Hamilton, meanwhile, had to slow down to the required caution speed. So he got caught. It happens."


I think that's a pretty fair analysis.I am bemused as to why Mclaren wouldnt bring Lewis in for his first change when he called in to say his tyres had gone, they left him 3 more laps!! At least 6 seconds lost there!!Lewis gets criricised for not making tyre calls, but when he does he's ignored. This has happenned a lot. Apart from being cross with himself for the start, maybe its why he looked glum.