Tyred of the current state of F1?

OK, can we have some decorum on the forum?

We all have our opinions, lets not try to insist that our opinions are undoubtedly correct. And that one Critical Thinking essay will be enough before we descend into petty and abstract arguments.
 
Just to make everything clear
Definition:
Lottery-A process whereby the result is governed by chance
I believe that F1 is being governed by chance through tyres, pit strategy and weather
The combination of these variables makes the whole weekend a lottery right through to the chequered flag

In 2011 we were accustomed to being able to sucessfully predict the outcome of a race, Vettel 1st, Webber Alonso Button and Hamilton fighting it out for the podium, Force India, Toro Rosso and the like in the midfield and HRT Marussia and Caterham at the back. While that is an opinion it is also nearly completely true making it pretty much a fact. Evidence? How many times was Vettel not in the top 4? once, did the bottom 3 ever get close to points? no. Did the midfield get any of their cars on the podium? No. Opinion backed up with unarguable fact

2012:
As said before, no one has been able to successfully look at a race weekend and guess the running order, that a Sauber would be on the podium, a Lotus would nearly win only to struggle 2 weeks later. Yes we can see that McLaren, Red Bull, Lotus and Ferrari are definetly at the top but can we predict who will be fastest race by race. Impossible. Fact

What im saying is that in my opinion that is more true than others (dont take that the wrong way), F1 is becoming a lottery and i have the evidence of many pundits, team personnel and drivers to back that up

So ExtremeNinja when you say im being arrogant, really im not. Im being more correct and now instead of criticizing others, develop your own opinion and accept it or debate it without being condescending
 
The two times a Sauber was on the podium was when it rained and when the other top teams thought they could go on driving with shoddy tyres but found out they couldn't :rolleyes:

Incidentally, have you noticed how much closer the cars are in performance this year? You seem to overlook this fact entirely, and blaming everything on the tyres instead.

So no, your opinion is not more true than others.
 
I think the situation is a lot more complex than just the tyres. Track conditions contribute to the effect the cars have on the tyres. The way a driver drives contributes to the tyre performance. Some chassis are better suited to certain tracks than others, as are some drivers. The rules stability, and the banning of the blow diffuser, has brought the cars much closer together hence why we have had 7 different winners in 7 different races. You combine that with Williams and Sauber making competitive cars and, so far, this season has been quite interesting (I'm not going to get as carried away as some and start declaring this the greatest season ever).

What I believe will happen, as always does, the second half of the season will become far more predictable and I think there will only be three or four drivers to win races from here on in.
 
its just one of the certain things we were sure about in 2011, but now in 2012 who knows, 1 first corner pileup and boom they're in the points, and that nearly happened in Monaco, Heikki Kovalainen takes advantage of the T1 incident and ends up 13th
 
But the 2011 pileup was much more likely to see Loterham in the points than the 2012 one. Had that been a Safety Car rather than a red flag Hamilton would not have continued, Sutil may not have continued and they were only Vettel's million-year old tyres giving up and throwing him in the wall from a point.
 
Huh?
Click to expand
quite right, sorry
Incidentally, have you noticed how much closer the cars are in performance this year? You seem to overlook this fact entirely, and blaming everything on the tyres instead.
Click to expand
Your right that yes it is not completely down to tyres as the EBD ban is significant as well and DRS is allowing drivers to keep up with those in front, making it harder for the person in front to shake them off
 
Sutil may not have continued
Click to expand
He only had a puncture, he would have pitted and could have ended up in front of the "Loterham" (nice)
It could be a bit of wishful thinking that Vettel put it in the wall, he probably would have just slowed down, points are points
 
I am struggling to understand your argument Abnash24,

Abnash24 said:
Definition:
Lottery-A process whereby the result is governed by chance
I believe that F1 is being governed by chance through tyres, pit strategy and weather
Click to expand

The car working well or not on the tyres is not chance, its an understanding of the car and set up. Pit Strategy is not chance, it is either good or bad. What is happening with the weather could be construed as chance, however you will find that certain chassis behave better in what conditions and so instead should be put down to engineering a car that works in all conditions.

Abnash24 said:
In 2011 we were accustomed to being able to successfully predict the outcome of a race, Vettel 1st, Webber Alonso Button and Hamilton fighting it out for the podium, Force India, Toro Rosso and the like in the midfield and HRT Marussia and Caterham at the back. While that is an opinion it is also nearly completely true making it pretty much a fact. Evidence? How many times was Vettel not in the top 4? once, did the bottom 3 ever get close to points? no. Did the midfield get any of their cars on the podium? No. Opinion backed up with unarguable fact
Click to expand

Last years RedBull was arguably one of the best cars since the Schumacher dominated Ferrari era, surely a loss in that performance advantage means that you would be expecting Vettel and Webber to fight it out with Alonso Button and Hamilton? Surprisingly I think that is what it happening.

Did any of the midfield cars get on the podium? Well no. However, the reason for that was because none of them could afford to develop the EBD and so lost almost a second a lap. Now the EBD is banned they are therefore a lot closer to the front runners. Last year a perfect race weekend couldn't overcome that speed differential. This year it can

Abnash24 said:
2012:
As said before, no one has been able to successfully look at a race weekend and guess the running order, that a Sauber would be on the podium, a Lotus would nearly win only to struggle 2 weeks later. Yes we can see that McLaren, Red Bull, Lotus and Ferrari are definitely at the top but can we predict who will be fastest race by race. Impossible. Fact
Click to expand

Saying something is fact doesn't improve your argument. I think you can predict the running order. By the end of the season the top 3 teams will be McLaren, Ferrari, RedBull. They will be followed by Lotus and Mercedes. They will be followed by Sauber, Williams, Force India and Torro Ross. Bringing up the rear will be Caterham Marussia and HRT.

If it was a lottery as you are trying to suggest there would be as much chance of HRT winning the constructors championship as there would be for RBR. I'm not sure if that is the case, are you?
 
I agree i am a bit all over the place but what im trying to really say its a lottery, not as extreme as HRT having an even chance as RBR at winning the constructors championship but enough where you could not look at the next race weekend and pick a winner and sometimes even the general podium. Lots of factors are affecting these races: Tight field, weather, tyre wear and this is shown particularly at the Malaysian GP where no one could have predicted Ferrari to win after Melbourne, or Perez to nearly win. I agree that the general, overall season running order can be deciphered but this is a lottery where you cannot go into a race and confidently pick a winner. So far this weekend ive heard predictions of Schumacher, Vettel, Raikkonenn, Grosjean, Alonso, Hamilton and even Button winning, thats 7 possible drivers, all of which likely to win. Why do you think there are so many possibilities? Thats down to weather, the cars performance at different temperatures, the closeness of the field etc.
The car working well or not on the tyres is not chance
Click to expand
But the weather affects how the car works eg: Lotus are better in the heat whereas Mercedes are good in the cool conditions where they have less tyre degradation, so then i guess you could say that weather is very important, and how the weather is on the race weekend is down to chance
Did any of the midfield cars get on the podium? Well no. However, the reason for that was because none of them could afford to develop the EBD and so lost almost a second a lap. Now the EBD is banned they are therefore a lot closer to the front runners. Last year a perfect race weekend couldn't overcome that speed differential. This year it can
Click to expand
Exactly right, that reason goes under the 'non chance' reasons
Its not all down to luck, driver skill and car performance are important as well.
 
Ok mate. We'll agree to disagree on the exact amount of chance in this season. I take your point somewhat. Your last post was of a much better quality. Try to avoid writing 'fact' in your posts though it has the potential to wind many people up. My self included :)
 

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