Nick Heidfeld

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
he's a perfect example of a talent that deserves more and fair crack in F1 and was denied because of money issues so
I'm sorry, but I disagree. My heart goes out to the drivers whose parents can't afford $1m a race to get an F1 drive. Those are the real lost opportunities. Giorgio did get to do lots of races in that Jordan and all of them were poor. Pantano was subsiding Heidfeld's salary, but Nick was getting the results for the team. No need to apologise for that - that's the way the game works.

I'd love to see evidence that McLaren or Williams wanted to sign Pantano for 2004.
 

Vortex

Race Winner
Sad to see Heidfeld go, I like the guy, this could be the last time we see him in F1 (however I’ve thought that more than once before but he keeps coming back).
I understand why Renault did it tho, money obviously but they kinda got little to lose by risking it with Senna now as they’re very likely to retain their position in the constructers so may as well get some race miles on Senna encase Kubica doesn’t come back next year so he can replace him.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
I'm sorry, but I disagree. My heart goes out to the drivers whose parents can't afford $1m a race to get an F1 drive. Those are the real lost opportunities. Giorgio did get to do lots of races in that Jordan and all of them were poor. Pantano was subsiding Heidfeld's salary, but Nick was getting the results for the team. No need to apologise for that - that's the way the game works.

I'd love to see evidence that McLaren or Williams wanted to sign Pantano for 2004.
Not for 2004 but pre 2003 he was talked about as the next big thing in F1 then again his old rival Alonso was smarter in getting Flavio to manage his career than Pantano was

Thats why Nick does not deserve sympathy for how his career has worked out he's had more chances than others...he got rescued by Eddie with Pantano paying for his drive andn then Mario gave him a lifeline at Williams then BMw

Lets be honest the Jordan was an absolute pig and Pantano was asked by the team / Eddie to secure $1m each race from his own family who remortgaged themselves to fulfill his dream..he is not some spoilt rich kid who had bucket loads of sponsorship or government money to drive in F1
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
All of what you're saying is opinion. Writing off fantastic results because of what? You don't have the attention span to notice anything that's not on fire? Heidfeld can do fire to you know!

It didn't make you say Wow? Oh well...he outpointed one of the most highly regarded drivers in the sport. Wow! Not many people could do that...

It's very easy to write off somebody's best results by just saying "Changeable conditions...fluke..." but then that's almost every win in Jenson Button's career.

Heidfeld's f1 career may well be over. A shame, but it is what it is.
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What stupid statement to make

I know he outscored Kubica jusrt like everyone else does in the F1 paddock on here but the point is then why is not he getting top drives then if outscoring Kubica then??

and even he asked himself that question when BMW decide to pack it in...no one wanted him thats the truth except Mercedes trying to wring deals out of loyalty but even they decided Schumacher was the better option than giving him Jenson's drive in 2010 despite their past association and funding his junior career

Check your history about Jenson I believe he's won races in the dry, changeables and not even from pole so he as a mixture of wins so it can't be fluke then he's winning in all different conditions not just changeable so you get your facts right then or have been watching F1 only since 2010 then

If Nick Heidfeld was good enough Ron Dennis would have put him in a mclaren in 2002 to replace Mika or got him to replace David Coulthard rather than sign Montoya when Mercedes were hoping he still had a future at Mclaren despite the snub ...

Teams want either young talents who may be raw but high potential or an experienced world class driver who can guarantee wins and podiums

Nick Heidfeld is experienced but solid.... big teams dont want solid drivers who just picks up points for 4th and 5th but be able to go for wins and consistent when the opportunity is there to do so Nick Heidfeld has not done that when the BMW was good

the fact BMW said they needed him to get up to speed than back Kubica for the 2008 championship says questions about his mental toughness if he were to get beat by a fast teammate...big teams cannot afford passengers and certainly would not be wasting their resources on backing No 2 driver if they can't handle a fast teammate

as a long term assessment Heidfeld's peak was 2007 and Kubica yet to reach his

Problem with Heidfeld is he is like a ghost in the race no one notices him he's got consistency but not strong enough race pace

He was not even rated amongst the top 10 drivers of 2009 if I remember where as Kubica was in the top6..
so its not just me who notices this

Even when he beat Webber in 2005 Williams insiders said he is not as quick as Webber

He was given the baton to lead Renault and basically has not lived up to expectations and standards set by Kubica

Now obviously if he was consistently winning races and getting podiums then a different opinion would be formed of him

By 2007 his stock was high because he pulled a few moves on Alonso which impressed people but he's never been able to reach those heights even when BMW had a better car in 2008
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
If you want to say Button is flukey in the wet I believe he managed to outlast everyone in Melbourne on his set of tyres better than others

In China head to head with Lewis post safety car he was pulling away
In Canada...the race should have been Webber's but he fluffed it passing Schumacher but Jenson took one go and went after Vettel

In Hungary he outdrove both Vettel and Hamilton who are supposedly as good in the wet
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
I am not the only one who holds the view of Heidfeld's abilities on this forum:whistle: Fact is he has had Mercedes back him into F1 and been saved a few times along the way and has not made the most of it ..he can only blame himself
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Maybe i should apply the infamous anti Button cliche " Not good enough to win a race, Not good enough to drive for a top team, Not good enough to be World champion" seems more appropriate to Heidfeld
 
Apart from Buttons first few wins in 2009 when his car was much better than the rest, he has only won in changeable conditions

It's highly possible Nick could have replicated the wins in the same cars as he is also a steady calm risk adverse driver

Just like Heidfeld now Button appeared to be heading out to pasture before a massive lucky break with Brawn and the DD loophole
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
I think Nick is more like Lewis if I'm honest. He's a consistant point finisher, you'd never rule him out of a Grand Prix, there is always massive expectation around him, he's pulled off some amazing results yet he always just comes up short of acheiving his overall aim and afterwards its usually concluded it was bad luck or not having the right equiptment.
 

Road of Bones

MTC Mole
Premium Contributor
To be honest, DTM doesn't seem that great a move for ex-F1 pilots. If you look at the list of recent F1 retirees to move there, none of them have particularly shone, have they? DC tools about on the fringes of the top 10 (at best), Half Schumacher's only ever had 1 decent result IIRC. He ought to take a leaf out of Davidson/Wurz/Gene/Bourdais/Fisi's book and go race Sportscars instead - he might win something!;)
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
So you're allowed to have your opinions but mine are half baked? seems a little harsh Cook. I was not insulting either driver just comparing them.

as for amazing results: with 2 laps left of the Belgium Grand Prix 2008 NH was running in 9th place - due to an inspired move for tyres and some brilliant overtaking he managed to take 2nd place.
Sorry Rasp but Heidfeld 's inspired move was actually more like all or nothing when it occured because it was obvious everyone was going like a snail on dries in the wet as the commentattors said Alonso and Heidfeld had nothing to lose really

Plus he was promoted to 2nd because of Lewis's time penalty

Why I don't think people rate Heidfeld is because his best results - podiums barring Malaysia this year only come in tricky conditions and even then he is not like the "quickest" in the last few years

Malaysia 2009 - 2nd in the race because of lap count back from red flag and really he was simply gambling to stay out on his tyres ( Inters) when everyone went for wets before being passed by Button and then went off the road as Glock went by before the red flag came out

Belgium 2008 see above
Silverstone 2008 - 3rd but well over a minute behind Hamilton !

Canada 2008 - the usual freak race
Melbourne 2008 - he was not near Kubica's pace and the stupid no pitting during SC rule worked in his favour which he admitted he was lucky

Hungary 2007 - 3rd owed to the fact Alonso had got a grid penalty

Canada 2007 -2nd probably his best BMW race
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Yes Button went on to prove himself when given the car, how do we know Nick could not have done the same in 2009?

We can't say who is better, we can say Jenson was luckier to get a chance to do a job, Nick never really was
Heidfeld actually showed in 2005 and 2007 he can race with the front given the fact that he managed to pull off some big passing moves on Alonso.

When he beat Kubica in 2007 people were impressed and expected him to carry the momentum in 2008 but to their surprise he struggled even though Kubica managed to get it on the podiums often... the infamous BMW stance to concentrate on 2009 and help Nick Heidfeld did him no favours especially no top team is going to take such bizarre decision to help him more if the other driver is driving out of his skin

Either

A) Kubica drove out of his skin in 2008
B) BMW did not anticipate the car they produced was really that good
C) Heidfeld underperformed

He was beginning to earn the nickname " Leidfeld" as in misery in the German press. So he does not receive glowing endorsements like Vettel does from the German media
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Apart from Buttons first few wins in 2009 when his car was much better than the rest, he has only won in changeable conditions

It's highly possible Nick could have replicated the wins in the same cars as he is also a steady calm risk adverse driver

Just like Heidfeld now Button appeared to be heading out to pasture before a massive lucky break with Brawn and the DD loophole
Heidfeld had a car that appeared capable of mounting a championship challenge in 2008 but he was poor compared to his teammate
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I think that if Heidfeld's luck might have went the other way, then he might be world champion. I think the Button comparison is quite good, although Button seemed to have raised his game a lot this year, in 2009 if Heidfeld was in place of Button I think that Heidfeld would have won the title, would he have won 6 out of 7 races?

Maybe, maybe not. But I am very sure that he wouldn't be as inconsistent as Button was in the second half of the season.
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
Gonna have to disagree with you on that front Sly. If Heidfeld had been in the Brawn in 2009 Barrichello would have beat him.

As for Button being inconsistant. The second half of the 2009 season was the most mixed up I've ever seen in F1 - you never knew what was going to happen. One min a car would be the worst in the field and the next one of its drivers would be sticking it on pole. Don't kid yourself that Heidfeld would have done any better than Button in the fading Brawn. Button played the percentages and brought the title home - people seem to miss that point.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
My point is, put Nick Heidfeld in the Brawn car in 2009, and I would think he would come out as World Champion that year.
 
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