Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[Brogan]

Hamilton has suggested he may be testing next week at Mugello in place of the reserve driver.

Makes sense to me after their lack of race pace at Bahrain.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/277780/hamilton-mugello-test-plans-might-change/

 

[The Artist.....]

Brogan

I suppose this decision will come down to whether McLaren actually trust their race-drivers feedback regarding the cars.... Hypothetically speaking, a good race-driver is not always the same thing as a good testing/development driver - Pedro DLR was always exceptional for them in giving feedback and developing the car....

 

[FB]

Given that most track time testing and development now takes place during a GP weekend you have to hope that the race drivers can do as good, if not better, job as the test drivers otherwise they should be running one of these guys in FP1.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

McLaren should just read this thread to help with management decisions

Just a couple of pages at least two posters pointed out the folly of not taking the drivers at all

Common sense visits McLaren again!

Also has anyone noticed how much Williams are struggling without Sam Michaels, and how much improvement McLaren have demonstrated this year since cunningly raiding other teams for their best staff

Ah the joys of running a winning outfit according to the business school textbook

 

[downforce]

what does sam michael actually do??

 

[The Artist.....]

Cookinflatsix
Enough with the chip on the shoulder.

You do realise that the vast majority of people have seen problems with McLaren over the years, - I don't think there are many who would suggest that McLaren's problems have always related to bad luck.... I think what relates to bad luck is when you perceive it happening to one driver more than another!

It strikes me as arrogant, to say the least, to suggest that you know how to organise McLaren better than anyone currently within the organisation - are you really surprised they didn't acknowledge an e-mail from some random punter who tells them that he knows how to do their jobs better than they do!

McLaren have bungled many times in the past - I mean they managed to design a car that never even managed to make it to a race-weekend - let alone the chequered flag!

 

[Cookinflatsix]

The Artist..... dont mean to sound like a chipped sholder, its just my 'infamy' approach to getting my opinion across

No they didnt have to follow my suggestions, if they received several such emails then surely the matter should have been moved higher up in the chain. Thats how I would run a team, keep an eye on the public opinions of your paying supporters, and if a common theme emerges then mark it for further investigation and send it up the management chain. Much much larger businesses than Mclaren have seen things turn around by employing common sense changes that management can sometimes be blind to

Also Artist, would you say it was entirely luck that again LH was afflicted worse than JB? remember according to my theory, LH is not being disadvantaged on purpose, its a consequence of the inefficient way the team is setup vis a vis supporting two top drivers going for the WC, I am not going to go into what arrangements could cause this as I have no appetite for 'conspiracy ridicule' today

Yes McLaren have bungled many times over the years but to lose valuable points 4 races in a row despite the drivers giving it their best, and especially after 2 years or so of similar bungles?

 

[Vortex]

Infamy, infamy! They’ve all got it in-fa-me!

 

[The Artist.....]

Also Artist, would you say it was entirely luck that again LH was afflicted worse than JB?

This is completely down to perception. You perceive that LH is more afflicted by problems. Other people don't. You notice when things have affected Hamilton, but if it affects Button, it's not considered!....

I am not going to go into what arrangements could cause this as I have no appetite for 'conspiracy ridicule' today

People have asked for you to provide evidence that LH is more afflicted, whether through pitstops etc. I think it's a huge leap to jump from there is something wrong with procedures/facilities within pitstops (Which have affected both drivers!) to "there's something rotten in the state of McLaren that always affects one driver more than the other!"

 

[Cookinflatsix]

The Artist..... And I have pointed to this season, in the first 4 races LH has had more disadvantage wrt strategy, pitting and pitstop service. That is a fact is it not?

Let me remind you of my theory in case it relevant here;

The team are running strategies, setup decisions etc not separately for two competing top drivers, but for 1 unit of two cars. Possible with the idea that it will bring better team points and keep both drivers from falling out 2007 style. But this is inefficient when we consider the behavioural aspects of human nature. People do what they want to do more than what they have to do, therefore when the same people are dishing out on the fly strategies and choices, its easy to see one driver get disadvantaged inadvertently by team members who are just following the mandate set out at the top for maximum points for the team.

I gave an example before, 1 driver in front should be pitting first, conditions are bad, second driver cant handle conditions as well as first driver so strategists (doing his job properly) brings in driver 2 and therefore guarantees lower results for driver 1 but higher results for drivers1+2

This is the type of process McLaren should be able to look at and investigate without worrying about conspiracy ridicule, I wonder what Whitmarsh meant when he said looking at processes and strategies though? Surely it starts with his rearrangement for the pit to allow drivers to share everything?

 

[The Artist.....]

The Artist..... And I have pointed to this season, in the first 4 races LH has had more disadvantage wrt strategy, pitting and pitstop service. That is a fact is it not

No, it's your perception.

According to your posts:
When LH stops first, it's an advantage to stop second.
When JB stops first, it's an advantage to stop first.

Secondly, even if your theory were correct, it would be correct to try to maximise results for drivers 1+2 overall! Money is awarded for the constructors championship, NOT the drivers championship. It is McLaren's job to try to maximise constructors points!

 

[downforce]

Sam M probably disturbs Martin Whitmarsh, as well as make sure that pitstops run smoothly

I think I know why Williams got rid then.

 

[FB]

Guys - you have the Mosh Pit to discuss all things Jenson and Lewis can you please take it there.

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/jenson-button-vs-lewis-hamilton.4734/

 

[downforce]

tbh honest I don't think discussion of which driver McLaren will test with or sam michaels role in the team is off topic for this thread.

 

[FB]

Sorry downforce - not directed at you. You "popped that one in" as I was typing my post. I quite agree that discussion on the merits or demerits of Sam Micheal at Mclaren is a perfectly legitimate point for discussion.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Secondly, even if your theory were correct, it would be correct to try to maximise results for drivers 1+2 overall! Money is awarded for the constructors championship, NOT the drivers championship. It is McLaren's job to try to maximise constructors points!

yes McLaren have sound commercial need for team success, they are a business and im sure MW is good at that, however i believe there is more overall benefit from winning a WC than winning the WCC, beyond the initial money. So this might work with academy drivers.

I tried to start a thread looking just at MW, LH and JB but didnt work so the place to discuss this would seem to be; http://cliptheapex.com/threads/hamilton-whitmarsh-button.4517/
or at a stretch
http://cliptheapex.com/threads/is-martin-whitmarsh-in-love-with-jenson-button.3661/

 

[Mephistopheles]

Blah all McLaren have to do is get their pitstops right

 

[Slyboogy]

I think you need to give the mechanics respect, they work much harder than those that get the credit, they put so many hours in, have several sleepless nights.

They have problems with fitting a certain tyre on a certain side for 2 races in a row, can't be just a coincidence? It's been noted that it's a mechanical problem as McLaren have updated their tyre changing systems to be more efficient.

A team member makes a mistake in the pitstop, he's heavily criticised and sometimes sacked, when a driver does it, several come to his defence.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Mr Boogy, I agree, its no point singling out or replacing any team member.

After the first incident with Button, more should have done and done better to prevent it happening repeatedly in the next race

if you are a slick and efficient outfit deserving to win things ahead of others

question is what or who needs to be changed after 3 years or so of benefit of doubt?

 

[Slyboogy]

To be fair, after China, it could have just been a one off incident, just as the Schumacher one was in China too.