Ask The Apex

[cider_and_toast]

Now that I've finally managed to find the time to post and a computer to do it on, I won't waste it by expanding on the Lotus 88 thread but instead ask a sort of Lotus related question. In the Mid 80s Renault Turbo engines used to run with the word Gordini on their cam covers.

Who or what is Gordini ??

 

[slickskid]

Amédéé Gordini often refered to as 'the wizard' in France but was born in Bazano Italy in 1899. Probably better known for the Gordini (and Simca-Gordini) Grand prix cars (T15,16,32) of the early to mid 50's before finally joining Renault in 1957 after the collapse of the team.

 

[Galahad]

I think for a time after he sold up the Gordini name was used as a sort of performance brand for sportier Renault products?

Not unlike the "AMG" badge on a Mercedes, for example.

 

[slickskid]

From what i've read he did actually work at Renault on the Dauphine engines and possibly the R8 and Alpines but i wouldn't be suprised if the name was also used as a marketing tool.

 

[Brogan]

I think for a time after he sold up the Gordini name was used as a sort of performance brand for sportier Renault products?

Indeed it was.
Gordini Turbo was seen on some of the high performance cars.

 

[FB]

Based on Siffert Fan's Rob Walker thread who was the last privateer to enter F1? I think it may have been Hector Rebaque but I've been wrong before and I know I will be again

 

[Galahad]

Assuming that you exclude Super Aguri and Toro Rosso and depending on how you define it, I think it's probably RAM's private Williams that Rupert Keegan raced in 1980? Can't think of a more recent example (the Concorde Agreement effectively outlawed it).

 

[tooncheese]

What about the ASG team, were they privateers?

Also a question, when your making a post how do you make a small picture appear in the top corner, that also apppears on the preveiw. I can't do it, but some nice person is ammending the post after I post it, any hep is appreiciated

 

[tooncheese]

*AGS

 

[Brogan]

Also a question, when your making a post how do you make a small picture appear in the top corner, that also apppears on the preveiw. I can't do it, but some nice person is ammending the post after I post it, any hep is appreiciated

That would be me

The image on the first post of a new thread in the F1 forum is just for the home page.
There's a guide here: http://cliptheapex.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=990

P.S. You can also edit your own posts too so you don't need to post again to correct a typo

 

[FB]

How to define a privateer?

I have taken a privateer team to be one that doesn't build their own cars so, in theory, you could include Super Aguri and Toro Rosso in this. However, I would discount Toro Rosso as they were effectively the junior Red Bull team and were bank rolled by Dietrich Mateschitz. Super Aguri are a little more complex as their first cars, in 2006, were old Arrows chassis and then in 2007 they used an old Honda chassis - the problem for me with Super Aguri is that they were funded by Honda so does this preclude them from being privateers?

On AGS, their first car, the JH21C, was based on a Renault monocoque so this could be defined as a privateer entry but the next cars were built by AGS. BTW, if you fancy driving an AGS F1 car you can http://www.agsformule1.com/en/drive-a-formula-1.php

As G points out the days of the privateer entry are now outlawed by the Concorde Agreement. Shame really, great way for young drivers to get some F1 experience and you have to wonder if a team running one of last years Brawn, Red Bull or Williams chassis wouldn't be faster than Virgin, HRT or Lotus.

 

[laFrau]

I also have a question.

I have always wondered what the teams do with all the chassis they have already produced, once they don’t need them any longer (for example, because they have designed a new one for the following season).

I know, they sometimes give them as a present for high rank employees: Newey got a RBR recently and Heidfeld got a BMW Sauber last season. But what do they do with the rest of them?

 

[tooncheese]

There are many places where they could wind up, in a museum or a private collection, but Id say they keep one or two from each season as refrence or for testing - massa used and 08 car whilst getting back to fitness last year.

Also brogan, with the imaage in the corner thing, can i use my own picrures from somthing like photobucket?

 

[FB]

Just to back up Tooncheese's post, many end up in museums - the Donington collection being a prime example. I know Mclaren and Williams also have their own displays at the factories and if you use Williams Confernce Centre you get a museum tour.

http://www.attwilliams.com/gallery/rbs-williams-f1-conference-centre

Also, drivers get given cars. Button threatened Brawn with legal action a while ago as he was promised his championship winning car. Brawn wanted to give him a replica which Button didn't appreciate, Brawn gave in in the end.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Jenson-Button-sued-Mercedes-1m-car-gift.html

 

[fat jez]

Yep, I've been round Williams' factory and seen the tour in early 1999. I went while the team was in Malaysia, so the factory was a bit quiet. Actually, I was there professionally, so didn't have to pay as my employer at the time had Williams as a customer. It was something else walking through the museum and seeing the names stencilled on some of the cars.

 

[MajorDanby]

There was the viral video with Jenson and Lewis going around the McLaren storage unit. They had 3-4 chassis from each year just covered up in a big warehouse. I remember Lewis getting very excited as he sat in Senna's 1990? chassis.

Also some of them are given away as presents. For instance, I think Adrian Neway will receive a 2010 Red Bull chassis at the end of this year as a thank you.

 

[Grizzly]

Corporate Sponsorship

This pre-dates me by some time. When this came into effect, was it an instant ticket to success for the team with the biggest sponsor?

Like the first team to secure Marlboro as a sponsor for example, did they instantly win that year with a car that cost 10 million times the other teams budgets? or was there a slightly smoother transition from private/factory funding to sponsors?

I imagine that there could have been one hell of a mess, with hugely disparate budgets in different teams across the grid (still true today i guess).

 

[FB]

Like so mnay things in F1 Lotus were the first to carry overt sponsorship on their cars. The Gold Leaf team Lotus cars first took to the track in 1968 and were painted red rather than in British racing green (see here for a thread on national racing colours).

From what I can find McLaren were the first to run in Marlboro livery in 1974 but as they were running the M23, which was first raced in 1973 in Yardley livery, I don't think it really made a significant difference to the teams performance - that said Fittipaldi won the drivers title and McLaren the constructors championship.

Wiki has a good page showing all the sponsorship F1 teams have had ober the years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_sponsorship_liveries#Lotus_.281968-1994.29 but there are some pieces missing as I can recall McLaren running "one off" sponsorship deal at Long Beach in 1979.

 

[Galahad]

It may well be that a fair chunk of the Gold Leaf money (as well as later sponsorship) somehow found its way from "Team Lotus" to "Lotus Cars", depending on the financial health of the sportscar side at any given moment. I read an extract from the recent Chapman biog that explored the ways in which Colin would, from time to time, manoevre funds from company to company to maintain an illusion of solvency!

And the amounts of money were much less, since F1 didn't have the same sort of marketing potential as it does now. Yes, you could possibly get your name prominently in the newspapers if your car won the British GP - but you may as well just take out a newspaper advert, which is guaranteed to be printed whether you win or lose!

For example, Walter Hayes of Ford paid just £100,000 in 1966 to cover the development and sponsorship of Cosworth's DFV engine. Not a bad investment really for 155 GP wins...

Those teams who could get long-term sponsorship deals (McLaren/Marlboro, Lotus/JPS, Brabham/Martini) were in a stronger position as a result, but by and large they were the teams who were already winning anyway. Sponsorship did fuel a surge in the early-to-mid 1970s of chancers who fancied the idea of being in F1 but their wealthy backers soon got bored of not winning, and these teams seldom lasted for more than a season or two (Frank Williams' operation perhaps being the exception through sheer stubbornness on his part!)

 

[F1Yorkshire]

I've got a question about a drivers race engineer.

In the recent years they have become more high profile mainly due to the radio traffic we hear throughout the race. Two of the well known ones are Rob Smedley for Massa and Rocky for Vettel.

Originally these engineers will be employed by the team, my question is if Massa or Vettel moved on from their teams would they take their own engineer with them or would they be assigned a new one when they arrived at their new team.

I believe Button got a new engineer when he joined McLaren but is Rob Smedley likely to follow Massa if he changes team due to the relationship they have built up.