Technical Are Red Bull using exhaust gasses to heat the rear tyres?
- Thread starter tranquility2k9
- Start date
I think overheating was a big problem for Mercedes this year. If you remember earlier in the year, they were burning their rear tyres up? I'm pretty sure their early EBD was doing this.
As for Seb on Sunday, did anyone else notice that he did a burnout when he was lining up on the grid and pulling into his box. When he did it, I thought he was going to overshoot - maybe they were concerned that the temps were already low. Then (even by modern standards) there was an eternal wait while the grid formed.
It seems more likely that low pressure caused by low temps after such a long wait on the grid caused the tyre to collapse, rather than high temps melting something?
As for Seb on Sunday, did anyone else notice that he did a burnout when he was lining up on the grid and pulling into his box. When he did it, I thought he was going to overshoot - maybe they were concerned that the temps were already low. Then (even by modern standards) there was an eternal wait while the grid formed.
It seems more likely that low pressure caused by low temps after such a long wait on the grid caused the tyre to collapse, rather than high temps melting something?
Wouldn't that then constitute a "moveable aerodynamic device"?
I guess Renault were living in fantasy land then as they were definitely doing it a few seasons ago.
http://www.f1technical.net/development/206
http://www.f1technical.net/development/206
You said, and I quote:
It's all well and good adding caveats after I have shown your original statement to be false.
Quite clearly that isn't correct as Renault were doing it, and no doubt others were/are.
It's all well and good adding caveats after I have shown your original statement to be false.
Just as an uninformed untechnical person, could the gasses be meant to warm the whole tyre and for some reason went wrong and only heated the inner tyrewall - hence puncture?
Having just watched Button's Onboard start, several times in Slo-Mo, it's clear that when Vettel put down the power at the start, only the right rear got lit up. There was no tire smoke at all from the left rear. What this means, I really don't know. Video footage to follow soon.
edit - Just saw this from Autosport
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96259
edit - Just saw this from Autosport
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96259
And here it is.
One thing that doesn't seem to have been examined in detail here is the final stage of qualifying. Could Vettel have hit a kerb then which could have caused damage internally to the tyre? It might not have been visible from the outside.
Presumably someone has a video showing his lap, or even including out and in laps.
Presumably someone has a video showing his lap, or even including out and in laps.
Does anyone else find it a bit odd that Horner would admit to an unusual burning near the right tyre and then suggest that the cause of the right rear puncture (a mere 5 seconds later) was caused by some random object from someone else's car?
And while on the subject of the burning, why is nothing burning before the car starts to move? The smoke appears the instant the car moves...
I find it almost impossible to believe that this wouldn't have been discovered before the Grand Prix.
Formation lap? Maybe. Quali? I doubt it.
I don't really pay much mind to Horner's explanations.
You state that based on an F1Technical post (i.e. fan speculation) and a couple of low-res, minute photos that show some sort of ducts angled somewhere close to the rear wheels. That's a bit of a stretch from where I'm sat. The quote from Gary Anderson that somebody used to support the theory in the discussion thread there actually talks about ducting high velocity air into a stall zone, and says nothing about using heat. In fact, from what I can make out of the hopeless F1T photos both ends of the duct are open. Bernoulli's principle being what it is, if those ducts are being used to pick up high velocity gasses at some point after they have left the exhaust pipe then the gas temperatures are likely to be pretty close to ambient by the time they reach the rear tyre. On balance, there seem to be far too many uncontrollable factors to make this a likely solution to keeping the rear tyres warm.
That's a statement I find hard to take seriously. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and all that. Had they found a chunk of tyre that showed classic fatigue or high strain failure characteristics they could certainly positively identify a structural failure. However, that tyre was in fragments by the time Vettel got back to the pits, and large parts had been left on the race track and (presumably) swept into the trash by the marshals, so just because they haven't found any indication of a failure doesn't mean that it didn't happen. The sudden loss of pressure they say Vettel suffered seems to point to a blowout, which suggests four likely causes: structural failure; penetration by debris; rim failure; or improper seating on the rim during installation. They haven't found any evidence for any of these, so the question remains moot.
But Seb was the only driver to visit the Pirelli factory over the Winter to learn the ins and outs of the rubber and get a feel for what the manufacturer was trying to achieve. Surely that would rule out structural failure. I mean, he went to the factory for crying out loud!
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