Grand Prix 2011 Monaco Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Well how about that then, in a similar case in 2010 the doom and gloom merchants have vanished with a cracking grand prix in Spain. With the champagne still flowing we move on to Monaco a week later.

Mclaren will be a lot happier after running Red Bull all the way to the finish at a circuit where Red Bull normally run out of sight and could be favourites going into the Monaco race. Red Bull, however, will be the team to beat after 4 wins out of 5 races with Vettel looking unbeatable at the front but Spain showed that he wouldn't have it all his own way with Hamilton chasing him all the way to the end, even if Vettel extended his ever growing lead at the top of the championship

Ferrari seemed to have dropped back again after a superb start in Spain and eventually Alonso wound up 5th. But no doubt the Scuderia will be challenging the Mclarens and Red Bulls come the Grand Prix on Sunday. Felipe Massa's early season promise has vanished and he's back to his 2010 level and his seat will be back under scrutiny if he continues this lack of speed

Michael Schumacher will have reason to be optimistic after a strong race, beating his team mate and finishing a strong 6th as he best of the rest behind the Ferraris,Mclarens and Red Bulls. Mercedes no doubt have become the 4th fastest team over Renault who are now fighting over the lower points with Sauber and Force India.

However the big question on everyones lips will be DRS which didnt help overtaking in Spain (which is better) but more importantly where it will be placed on a circuit where straight track is at a premium so safety is a concern.

HRT continue to improve and are taking the fight to Virgin which for them is a massive achievement and its not long before they overtake them while Team lotus's optimism on Saturday didn't replicate on Sunday with a DNF for Kovalainen. But on a track where they would be weak, to get into Q2 is a massive achievement.

Hope seems to have returned to F1 after a surprisingly exciting race in Spain and it seems as if the feared Red Bull domination has been alleviated by the charging Mclarens and while Monaco is never a classic due to the nature of the track, it's certainly a spectacle

For Galahad's superb write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-de-monaco/

 

[Galahad]

It's about risk assessment isn't it? What chance have I got of getting through unscathed here? What sort of driver am I dealing with? Are my odds 2-1 on or 2-1 against? Picking your place and picking your moment.

 

[Sarinaide]

Are we deciding on what euphamism to use "racing incident" "avoidable crash", "prang", "fender bender".

 

[Slyboogy]

Looking at that way, you can only pull off such moves once and get away with it, it wasn't a bad move, but around Monaco well... like Galahad says "ill-judged move"I think Hamilton should learn who is opponent infront is, Maldonado is a rookie, Schumacher is a 7 time world champion, that to me speaks volumes.

It is debatable, looking at there it seems both where at fault and Schumacher being that old, didn't need glasses as he spotted that really well

Credit to Schumacher, no credit for Hamilton or Maldonado.

 

[Slyboogy]

Are we deciding on what euphamism to use "racing incident" "avoidable crash", "prang", "fender bender".

All four

 

[Slyboogy]

It's about risk assessment isn't it? What chance have I got of getting through unscathed here? What sort of driver am I dealing with? Are my odds 2-1 on or 2-1 against? Picking your place and picking your moment.

That's what I have been trying to say for the past two days!

Just couldn't find the right words

 

[Sarinaide]

All four

Aggressive Merger!

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Can I ask when the last time a driver in front was at fault for a collision, according to the stewards?

Was it Michael Schumacher?

 

[Brogan]

Martin Brundle has now changed his opinion on the Maldonado incident.

Having seen further footage not available to me in commentary, I do think that Lewis was treated harshly in the incident involving Pastor Maldonado, although that penalty didn't affect his sixth place

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13606369.stm

 

[Fenderman]

I really like my new policy of keeping my mouth shut until I;ve read more posts and just clicked the like button. The "truth will always out" as our American friends say.

Martin Brundle has now changed his opinion on the Maldonado incident.

"Having seen further footage not available to me in commentary, I do think that Lewis was treated harshly in the incident involving Pastor Maldonado, although that penalty didn't affect his sixth place"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13606369.stm

 

[Incubus]

Whatever happened to the long-time accepted convention that you have to be at least roughly alongside another car to be entitled to the line into the following corner, and that the onus is one the driver behind to avoid a collision?
Does it no longer apply when Hamilton is involved?

 

[GeoffP]

All of the above!

Yes to Galahad, a driver should play the odds wisely;
Yes to Martin Brundle, the Stewards were harsh on Lewis - the fact that it didn't change Lewis' points/position does not change the error;
Yes to most of the posts....

Problem is when everyone's right, something else must be wrong.

I think rookie's are often a liability, but an essential one;
I think passing is needed to make a race, but will never replace a battle;
I believe KERS, owing to the ability to use anywhere is a great driver aid;
I am convinced that DRS' ability to make people hit the end of a straight faster helps no-one;
I am actually getting more comfortable daily that the three session quali works....

However, I do not believe the current qualifying and performance set up works in Monaco. Drivers do sometimes need to make multiple passes to recover from a single error (or piece of bad luck) over the weekend, and in Monaco the odds are too heavily dependent upon the other drivers reactions to be able to guage - the 2011 season's focus on creating speed differential requires a Tilke track, not a small principalty's high street

 

[Fenderman]

Whatever happened to the long-time accepted convention that you have to be at least roughly alongside another car to be entitled to the line into the following corner, and that the onus is one the driver behind to avoid a collision?
Does it no longer apply when Hamilton is involved?

As far as I am aware that has never been the convention. The convention was that if a driver had placed his car sufficiently alongside another - once commonly referred to as "showing a wheel" - and was on the inside line into the corner then the corner was his and the driver turning in was the one at fault. This was the view taken by stewards at the infamous race at Jerez when Michael Schumacher turned in on Jacque Villeneuve, at Silverstone when Damon Hill turned in on Michael Schumacher and I'm sure TBY could unearth numerous examples. It is only since Lewis Hamilton came on the scene that this custom and practise seems to have been turned on its head and is one of the reasons that he feels picked on.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Whatever happened to the long-time accepted convention that you have to be at least roughly alongside another car to be entitled to the line into the following corner, and that the onus is one the driver behind to avoid a collision?
Does it no longer apply when Hamilton is involved?

I believe Hamilton was roughly alongside Maldonado. And he would have been even more alongside if Pastor hadn't made at least a couple of blocking moves along the main straight immediately beforehand, in an attempt to keep Lewis behind.
I guess the only reason the Venezualan wasn't penalized for that was because he'd crashed out anyway.

 

[Incubus]

Well we must be talking about a different convention here, but in any case in the 1997 european GP at Jerez Schumacher turned in on Villeneuve while he was actually behind the canadian. The front right just collided against Jacques's sidepod.

That's why it was seen as blatantly intentional and that's why Schumi was disqualified for the entire championship standings.

 

[Incubus]

Flattery wil get you absolutely everywhere.

 

[Brogan]

I'm no expert so I'll defer to Jason Plato (racing driver), Martin Brundle (ex-racing driver) and Sam Micheal (Williams Technical Director).

 

[Fenderman]

Well we must be talking about a different convention here, but in any case in the 1997 european GP at Jerez Schumacher turned in on Villeneuve while he was actually behind the canadian. The front right just collided against Jacques's sidepod.

That's why it was seen as blatantly intentional and that's why Schumi was disqualified for the entire championship standings.

Yes, indeedy. I think being all the way ahead on the inside was definately sufficent.

 

[Incubus]

Also, I gave up smoking for good yesterday, from 60 a day to nothing. So I will be a psychopath for the next three days, which means you're not allowed to disagree with me on anything.

 

[Incubus]

Thank you for your understanding, and anyway back on topic.

to be honest I feel all these debates hark back to the same issue that' s been going on for a number of years now, Has Formula one become over-regulated?
On one hand I feel Hamilton can have little to complain about.

On the other I've never been one for retro-active punishments or drive-throughs and the likes.... This isn't a playground, sometimes you will get on the wrong end of someone's erratic driving, it's part of it, always has been.
It's a tough world out there on the track, but at the risk of using a dreadful cliche here, these things do even themselves out during the course of a career.

I'm not saying "let them all race as they see fit, even if that includes driving each other off the road" . merely that a driver driving recklessly will put himself at risk first and foremost, and only long-time repeat offenders should get penalised in a significant way.

I just don't enjoy all these penalties and drive-throughs and what have you's?

Now drivers are thinking in terms of "how much can I get away with?" rather than "how far up can I get in the race"?

 

[KekeTheKing]

I'm a little behind schedule this week guys. I was away from home base and I'm trying to get caught up with everything. Here's a good view of Schumacher's start and pass on Hamilton.