Formula E Vergne given stupid time penalty

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
In yesterday's Diriyah E-prix, the race finished behind the safety car, following a number of shunts. One of the rules in Formula E is that:
  1. You must use the Attack mode twice during the race
  2. You must have finished your final attack mode before the race finishes
  3. You cannot activate attack mode behind the safety car.
The final safety car came out with approximately 10 minutes of the race to run (so plenty of time for people to use attack mode during the race), and then was red-flagged with 2 minutes to go (and not restarted). Yes, the race was stopped for very good reason, but some common sense is needed in applying the rules in these circumstances.

Vergne had not started his attack mode before the safety car, so couldn't complete the second attack mode, yet has been handed a 24 second time penalty (which is exaggerated because the race finished behind the safety car). It strikes me that this is the sort of decision making that would even make F1 stewards blush!

 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
that is stupid. i think we only had 3 mins of running in the final 15 mins. you cant effectively lose a 1/3 & punish. what is it with motorsport stewards lacking common sense


on attack zones they need to change it i said this on the general FE thread. its backfiring. because being overtaken is ridiculous & they are far too much of a disadvantage
F1Brits_90 said:
although i feel this attack zones needs moving to straight, as their turning into hindrance not help. as if your going to lose 1 or 2 places & drivers will try to avoid that. iot why it leads to too many drivers wasting them under safety cars
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
I really struggle with rules that penalise drivers for other drivers' mistakes.

F1 had its own version of that with the "closed" pit-lane entry back in the days of refuelling. Back in Singapore 2008, Rosberg and Kubica were given stop go penalties for coming into the pits to refuel - when had they not come in, they would have run out of fuel...

F1 very quickly ditched this rule (albeit because of the other incentives it produced - but Formula E has basically said to F1 - "hold my beer" - just wait, we'll see a deliberate crash in the last 10 minutes of a race, causing a track blockage, just so that a leader is taken out, having not taken their attack zone.
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
F1Brits_90 moving the attack zone to the straight would defeat the object of its purpose, actually it's really a gimmick not needed, the object being placing it on the outside of a curb brings in a tactical decision, one will lose time to gain power, the decision is to use the power gain to advance but lose little time and not lose places, there is no penalty or tactics if it is on the straight. best ditch it it's not really needed.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
F1Brits_90 moving the attack zone to the straight would defeat the object of its purpose, actually it's really a gimmick not needed, the object being placing it on the outside of a curb brings in a tactical decision, one will lose time to gain power, the decision is to use the power gain to advance but lose little time and not lose places, there is no penalty or tactics if it is on the straight. best ditch it it's not really needed.

i would rather ditch it then. but the idea doesnt work.

because whats the point of an attack zone if you drop to 5th then have to spend 4 mins reovertaking 4th. before you can get to attacking 3rd which was the point of attack zone. as theyve managed to make DRS look like a proper overtake in comparison
 
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sobriety

Race Winner
I'm also not a fan of the removal of energy for full course yellow/safety car running. I think seeing them able to run flat out until the end of the race from time to time would be a good thing, and since they can follow closely it wouldn't be the end of the world.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Dartman and F1Brits_90 as I've said before, the attack zones were brought in because there are no pitstops and no tactical element - to be honest I find complaints on them a little bit none sensical. "It's just a gimmick" - Motorsport has been full of similar concepts through time - from DRS to Tyre Compounds, to qualifying tyres, to refueling.

i would rather ditch it then. but the idea doesnt work.

because whats the point of an attack zone if you drop to 5th then have to spend 4 mins reovertaking 4th. before you can get to attacking 3rd which was the point of attack zone. as theyve managed to make DRS look like a proper overtake in comparison

What's the point in a car coming into get fresh tyres that will make the car faster if you drop to 5th and spend 4 minutes reovertaking 5th?

As for Op - I fully agree this penalty was absolute stupidity.
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
RasputinLives there have only gimmicks in motor sport since the advent of Bernie and aero, before that you had cars with mechanical grip and drivers of varying quality, generally the better the driver in an average car caused the equalisation and created the excitement in the race but always taking into account mechanical failure as the joker in the pack.
With Formula-E do we need gimmicks as the cars are fairly evenly matched even from the best to the worst the gap isn't anything like F1 and the better drivers always advance in the race irrespective of their qualifying. To improve the formula extend the races and bring in a battery change, then tyres would come into play and we would have pre 1990 F1 racing, the fuel wouldn't last the race and neither would the tyres, perhaps not quite as exciting as the 60's and 70's, technology tends to create boredom.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Well Gen 3 are going to bring most of the things in you've suggested - they've just been developing it so it actually works before they bring it in. Not tyres though. The tyres have deliberately been designed to be long waring and all weathers for environmental reasons.

I still think Attack mode is interesting - even if it doesn't stay around I think it's an interesting expirement
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
The attack mode could stay but you should be allowed to use it under safety car or full course yellow, if it stays as a penalty if not taken twice, afterall if taken under safety car or full course yellows you can't gain or lose a position, if it needs to be kept, no gain no loss but there is still a gamble, you gain or lose nothing if taken too early, you may gain if the safety car comes in when you still have time left, if you get it wrong and the race is abandoned you get a penalty, at present there is no choice if the safety car comes out in the latter stages and you haven't taken attack mode.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
What's the point in a car coming into get fresh tyres that will make the car faster if you drop to 5th and spend 4 minutes reovertaking 5th?
put the pit lane is on the pit straight. they arent having pits on the suzuka esses. same with DRS they dont stick activation on outside of turn 8 of bahrain

theyve tried to be too cute, dont put the attack zone on the tightest corner on the track, if this attack zone is for more overtaking then make sure they can. at the moment you have every driver in there more interested considering a nuisance than a help, because it loses more places than it gains
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
But thats the point isn't it. The attack mode isn't for overtaking. It's an extra power usage to be used tactically when you need it. Part of that strategy is taking into account how long it takes to activate it. A time loss which is the same for everyone. Just like a pitstop. You can undercut, you can over it, you can use them early in hope of getting track position, or you can use them late to charge at the end. Just like a tyre change.

There really is no difference between it and a tyre change other than people's understanding of it.
 
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