Current Toro Rosso

Il_leone

Champion Elect
RasputinLives He is contracted to Renault but it appears the supposed rumours were

i) They want a French driver so take your pick from
-Ocon ( will this mean severing ties with Merc who refused Renault once)
- Gasly ( unless he severs ties with Red Bull who Renault don't want to deal with anymore unless they are forced to give back Sainz - not sure Carlos wants this)
-Vergne - he just won Formula E so has he pushed himself into contention
-Grosjean - they are showing first signs of impatience at Haas and supposedly Perez could replace him but it must be a slim chance going back to Enstone


ii) Suggestion was they would consider hiring Alonso to help get to the front

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Toro Rosso
- If Buemi has done so well outside of F1 - he's not getting a look in since being ruthlessly dumped by Toro Rosso. Would he do a lot better than Hartley who just can't buy any luck at the moment

Toro Rosso team have a knack of ruining a promising young driver career - the trouble is now they've ruined all theirs and it appears they are resorting to any other supposedly promising young driver out there including Norris
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
unfortunately poor Hartley is bearing the brunt of it although Gasly is now worried that Sauber will overtake Toro Rosso due to the Ferrari engine
 

Bill Boddy

Professional layabout
Contributor
I thought that once Honda got rid of Alonso they would go forward at great speed. Didn't Alonso use his third engine for the first time this the season a couple of races ago? /sarcasm.
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
I don't think anyone ever said Alonso was holding Honda back just that his constant berating and belittling of them was probably not doing their confidence any good.

As for people wanting Honda to be a success? Not sure why that is an issue.
 
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Il_leone

Champion Elect
Honda being successful in F1 is critical to get other engine manufacturers in so we don;t we have a 2 tier system pretty much at the moment

apparently Honda demanded the MGU to be omitted from the new rules which could help them move forward but also attract Porsche to come along
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
*shrug* you like who you like. I can perfectly understand why McLaren as an organisation make individuals activley dislike them. For the record I would have loved to see McLaren Honda be a success but feel McLaren treated Honda terribly. They were supposed to be partners and one team.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
I know this is a Toro Rosso page but the name Mclaren Honda remembered for the Senna- Prost era of dominance will now be tarnished with the disastrous renaissance which included Alonso /Button and Ron Dennis. On paper that should have been one of the strongest teams to ever existed but reduced to embarrassment.

The whole project was weighed with huge expectations and it did not start on the right footnote and created further problems that both sides needed addressing. The whole partnership has been been completely mismanaged...it is very hard to see either ever working with each other again until another decade or so and a complete change of attitude. The whole set up of exclusive is not going to work in the current era when the the leadinge two engine manufacturers have other teams to also get additional feedback. There are faults on both sides - Mclaren should have kept a close eye on what Honda promised and also be willing to let engines supply a second team, Ron should have got Ross Brawn but his ego tells him not to which was ridiculous

Honda maybe should have been forthcoming about the engine progress and also be more open to using people outside their own company

How is that neither party could agree that the engine building and development be done in Milton Keynes to take advantage of potential ex engineers from Mercedes, Red Bull and other teams does not make sense at all.


Honda meanwhile said it was aiming to be top 3 with Toro Rosso which sounded very ambitious and laughable... clearly they were not going to do that with the resources and budget of Toro Rosso. Perhaps with Red Bull the potential will be there. given the proximity of the team and Honda Europe HQ to suceed

The other talk is will Toro Rosso be bought out by Honda in future possibly when the new engine regulations come in despite Honda's last disastrous attempt as a team

Honda aint Toyota, it did have history of success in F1 so this failed partnership is hard to take for neutral F1 fans
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
I'm sorry but if the 'Earth Car' hadn't already trashed Honda's reputation then nothing that followed ever will.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Red Bull are working on the basis they are going to be the Honda works team and Mateschitz does not want to spend as much money in the future so you get the feeling potentially this is a long term partnership
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
My understanding of 'works' team is the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari who ran and build their own engine so we may be at cross purposes.

Honda are an engine supplier and the rules state all engines supplied anywhere should be the same.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Maybe the phrase for Red Bull is works team parity with Mercedes and Ferrari because Honda will be designing and building the engine to purposely suit their chassis something they don;t have with Renault
 

Bill Boddy

Professional layabout
Contributor
RBR always believed that the Renault engine had nothing to do with their successes and everything do do with their failures. They may have a hard time next season.
 
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