Politics The EU

Izumi

Points Scorer
Izumi, most people struggle with working for the common good in their own families. To think they can drop their self interest for something as huge as a federal Europe is beyond naive: it's delusional.
It may surprise you, however as much as I am leaning towards European federalism for variety of reasons, of which instinct of self preservation probably floats at the top, yet in reality, I also think one of great challenges we all facing in that push for big getting together is to keep government small, functional, debt free. I may come across as Liberal, and in certain aspects it would be truthful charge, however deep inside I am intrigued by small c, American style, conservatism, foreign to most today active in governing. Yes, that's the one that felt of the table recently, and should be probably found, dusted off, and put back in place again.

When it all supposed to happen in Europe? It is happening right now, and will continue so when I am long time gone. It is self evident, and it doesn't requires any proof, but evolutionary changes are endless. Recently I came across a quote which seems worth noting here. J.A.Wheeler (American Physicist) once wrote: "Time is Nature's way of stopping thing happening all at once". Fitting aphorism for the old continent re-inventing itself in a new, hopefully livable form.
 
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Izumi

Points Scorer
Independent:
The EU secretly offered to put Brexit “on ice” for five years in order to come up with a new deal for Europe, Ms May’s de facto deputy David Lidington told Panorama. Mr Lidington said: “Martin [Selmayr] sort of said ‘look, why don’t we have a deal whereby we just put all this on ice for five years… Let’s see how things go, let’s get the UK involved with France and Germany, let’s see how the dust settles and let’s talk about whether we can come to a new deal for Europe’”.
In retrospect UK probably should have explored, and take the offer with conditions on their own. If explained properly, protest shouting on the streets would have been minimum.
 

Andyoak

Race Winner
The problem was that UK has been asking for / encouraging change back towards an economic free trade model with immigration controls for years; culminating in Cameron's push before the referendum. They have always been rebuffed by France and Germany.

It would be politically impossible because the majority of the population, that chose to vote, chose to leave. It would also be politically naive to "put things on ice" and start talking to France and Germany again. why would their position change this time?

I think Mr Selmay is playing games with the changing leadership to paint the EU as the good guys. He's only saying this now because there is nobody with any authority to challenge him.
 

Izumi

Points Scorer
We must have different information. In my understanding there are 4 pillar principles of the union, which are not negotiable, and which is exactly what UK endeavor to alter. Mainly restrict movement of people. It was then, however today it is far more expanded agenda by separatists. Offer by Selmayr was surely a suggestion at the level of brainstorming utterance over a problem. More people would have to formulate the agreement with legal text at the end. What UK however could do, is to negotiate changes in area of governance, instead beating head against the wall.
 

RasputinLives

Not dead
Contributor
The thing is Izumi is that despite what the media and the very vocal right MPs want you to believe the majority of leave voters have no problem with freedom of movement. In fact if you go back a few pages I linked to a survey done which showed the UK is at the top of a list in a survey about whether incoming labour is welcome. The main concern the silent majority of leave voters have is the way the big business's cozy up to the EU in order to use these rules to get cheaper labour and more profit, paying their workers less and less whilst reaping the benefits. The second concern is how easy laws and regulations can be changed by none elected officials.

The problem is that all these concerns have been drowned out by the media focus on frogface Farage in order to sell papers, and the extreme left shouting 'racist!' at anyone who talks about leaving the EU. I, like most of us lefties, didn't really hear that view point expressed through all the noise. Now I hear it though, and have looked more into it I can't ignore it. FB has been saying it on here for a long time and now I understand his angle.

I have to thank you really Izumi because without some of your crazy precocious talks about how stupid the UK are for going for Brexit and how we're all a bunch of Nazi's then I wouldn't have looked into it further and would have still been a single minded remainer. Now I understand both sides properly.
 
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Izumi

Points Scorer
The thing is
I have to thank you really [USER=5683]Izumi
because without some of your crazy precocious talks about how stupid the UK are for going for Brexit and how we're all a bunch of Nazi's then I wouldn't have looked into it further and would have still been a single minded remainer. Now I understand both sides properly.[/USER]
[/USER]
Very orange type of response, if I may say so, however as long as you are sure that you are not exaggerating, and quoting me correctly without putting words into my mouth, than it's fine.
 
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RasputinLives

Not dead
Contributor
Yes it is an exaggeration for effect not a direct quote but sentiment remains the same. But seriously thank you. You really have broadened my political outlook and it's nice to see the views of other people around the world even if they are extremely different to mine.

Although this is the internet and you could be some teenager from Kent using a VPN to bounce off eastern European countries or something. I hope not though.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Changing the subject slightly to one of domestic politics.

It's obvious Izumi that you greatly admire Angela Merkel.

I'd be really interested to know as she moves towards the end of her term of office, what you think she has done for Germany on a domestic basis. We only really see her in the UK media on a European or international platform and I can see she has always operated effectively in this arena.

What we don't see is her domestic policy. What has she achieved for ordinary Germans in her time in office in areas like education, housing, health etc. What were her cornerstone policies in this area.

Almost all great politicians leave their mark domestically as well as internationally.

Genuinely interested to hear your thoughts?
 

Izumi

Points Scorer
I am not expert on a personality of her statue, I am unprepared, and I am not that presumptuous to judge her with some muddled talk which would merely end up disservice to her legacy which is yet to be written. I've never bother with issues you are interested in. Services are available, they are top notch, they are financially accessible...what else is there to say? (Army - that's another matter, but there are reasons why this subject got neglected.)

One thing is certain, that is, she is a devoted European. She faced historical past squarely, but moving forward in confident manner, and her analytical mind has calming effect on all of us while she is at the helm. It counts for something, living without hysteria, isn't it? No screaming "we all going to die" every time we read a morning papers. She leads most of Europe, not just Germany in quiet, unnoticeable, yet solid, respectable manner.

When we talk about Dr. Merkel, we are assured quickly that she is not working for Germany first, but for unified European ideals, and Germany is merely part of it. In recent years she has done what US is refusing to do, and welcomed all those unfortunate and tired. "We can do it" is memorable phrase, but cost her some political cash and popularity (for a while) in recent years. Second - I say - unfinished job is slow progress on unification of Eastern Germany into western part.

To end this, I am sorry for not being more helpful, but there is nothing which stands up for me except - life is worthwhile to live with Mutti in Berlin, quiet and clean. For some, she hasn't done anything, or not much, for others, she didn't break anything, or not much. I say, thanks, Angela.
 
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cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
"Whistle while you work, Barnier is a burk"

"right, for zis Brexit your are going on ze list, vot is your name?"

"Don't tell him Nigel"

"Mr Johnson, I don't want to be on the list"
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
"the vicar and I are looking for a cure for homosexuality"

"shut the **** up Ann"

Oh, hang on, that actually happened LOL
 

Izumi

Points Scorer
So in short.

You don't know or won't say.

How very strange.
I think I said as much as I want to say. Why don't we rather talk about kipper and ice pillow imposed by bad and inefficient EU? Funny thing is, not being an expert on ice pillows myself, I learned later from American news source, imposition of wrap is actually UK regulation, and they think it was very orangie stunt on part of Mr. Leading Candidate to blame EU for cost and damage to environment. It is going to be fun for all, that much is certain. Costly, but fun.
.
 
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Izumi

Points Scorer
You know a lot more about UK than Germany chap. Ex-pat?
Illusory privacy is very important to me, yet despite such conviction, I've revealed a lot of my past in my conversation with cider just recently. All true, believe it, or not. I cannot be compared to someone who claimed living in 15 countries or whatever that number was, but I feel at home, working and living on 4 continents. Take your pick where my home is. This discussion however should end. This is about EU, and in my last check, that's where UK still belongs.
 

RasputinLives

Not dead
Contributor
Ok chap. No worries. Just with such good written English and good knowledge of UK law and history I just wondered if you'd lived here and moved abroad. I didn't mean to create a diversion away from the topic being discussed by putting a random opinon out there.

So back to topic. Ice pillows. UKs fault everyone?
 
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