The 13th team

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
The FIA are once again making it as difficult as possible for any potential new team to compete on a level playing field.

The 13th grid position is available once more for next year after the collapse of US F1.
However, the FIA still hasn't made a decision and won't be doing so until the end of August.

That means any teams which have bid for the slot either have to take a huge gamble and start working on a car now and all the (possibly wasted) expense that comes with that.
Or they wait until they are confirmed which will put them months behind schedule and will more than likely mean missing out on any testing.

Meanwhile the existing teams are already well into the design of next year's car and are only awaiting confirmation of the tyres which by all accounts are going to remain the same size.

Once again this is extremely unfair on any prospective new team and the FIA should be starting this process and making decisions a lot earlier in the season.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I always have and always will object to the very idea of "franchises" in F1, which, in fact, is what the teams are. Anyone who is able to mount a challenge should be allowed to, including single-car private entries.

Bring back pre-qualifying, and let the good times roll!!! :thumbsup:
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
siffert_fan said:
I always have and always will object to the very idea of "franchises" in F1, which, in fact, is what the teams are. Anyone who is able to mount a challenge should be allowed to, including single-car private entries.

Bring back pre-qualifying, and let the good times roll!!! :thumbsup:

Second, Third and Fourth that motion. However, the big boys would never allow it.
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
Completely agree. The FIA making a mess of things yet again. All we are going to see with the 13th team (if they even get to the grid) is them in completely the same situation as Lotus and Virgin this season. The only difference being that they will have no-one to race against, the new teams of 2010 will have improved, leaving the 13th the laughing stock at the back of the grid.

I do love the idea of pre-qualifying, just let all of these entrants build a car and have a go, sadly however they will never be able to get the necessary sponsors for the required funding without guaranteed TV exposure every two weeks.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Art GP have withdrawn their application, despite being one of the favourites.

"ART Grand Prix has decided to withdraw their application to the International Federation of Automobiles (FIA) to take part in the 2011 Formula One World Championship," said a statement from ART.

"The team has been working for several months on this ambitious project that they had undertaken with determination and lucidity.

"ART Grand Prix had forged strong bonds with several technical and financial partners but with unfavourable economic conditions they could not gather the necessary guarantees to ensure the stability of the project in the long term.

"Therefore, the company will have to postpone its project until a later date, however it remains completely focused and dedicated to the other single-seater championships in which they are successfully involved in."

What a shame. I think they could have made a pretty good show of things bearing in mind their GP2 and Formula Three records.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85047
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Another American team are being touted as team 13 - the Cypher Group: http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/22403.html?CMP=OTC-RSS This article also lists Stefan GP, Epsilon Euskadi and Durango as possible franchisee's (is that a word?)

As well as a team with no experience in F1 the driver linked with the team, Jonathan Summerton, has no F1 experience either so we can expect DC to be rattling his bag of bolts about how dangerous they are should they be given the slot. Let's hope they are a better prospect than USF1 turned out to be.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Brogan said:
The 13th team must pay a £16 million deposit :o

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/23107.html

That £16M deposit could be the difference between a team making to the grid or not. It's a substantial amount of money for a startup team to find. While I agree that more careful selection of newcomers is needed, hitting them with that sort of fee is a crippling blow that few will be able to fund.

I notice there is no mention of when that deposit will be refunded.
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
And another team pulls the plug on next season to join ART that withdrew recently.

The American Cypher Group has officially withdrawn its candidature to become the 13th Formula 1 team in 2011.

The group, which was believed to include former members of the failed US F1 team, announced on Friday that it did not have sufficient budget to enter the sport next season.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85699

So it looks like it's now down to one of two between Epsilon Euskadi and the Jacques Villeneuve tie up with Durango for the 13th spot.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
And the 13th team is.......no-one.

Apparently none of the candidates met the required criteria.

I wonder if it is because none of them opted for Cosworth engines
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
Do we think they will open it up again next year?

If so, now is the time that they should start asking for applications for 2012. Actually give the new team a decent amount of time to get set up!
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
MajorDanby said:
Do we think they will open it up again next year?

If so, now is the time that they should start asking for applications for 2012. Actually give the new team a decent amount of time to get set up!

Would it make any sense for a new team to enter for effectively just one season.With the proposed regulation changes for 2013 that would be the time for new teams to enter.
 

gally5

Rookie
sportsman said:
MajorDanby said:
Do we think they will open it up again next year?

If so, now is the time that they should start asking for applications for 2012. Actually give the new team a decent amount of time to get set up!

Would it make any sense for a new team to enter for effectively just one season.With the proposed regulation changes for 2013 that would be the time for new teams to enter.

That's a very valid point, the only reason i can think of that a team may want to try and get in for 2012, with the sweeping changes proposed for 2013, would be if they felt that they stood more of a chance getting in the year earlier than if applying if everyone else waited for 2013
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
It would also give them a year's worth of aero and circuit data which would put them on a more level footing for 2013.

An expensive way to get the data though unless they can negotiate a cheap 1 year engine supply deal.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Here's the FIA press release confirming the failure of all the prospective teams to gain entry to next season.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wmsc/2010/Pages/wmsc_080910.aspx

[box=400]Press Release
World Motor Sport Council
08/09/2010

At an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council in Paris on 8 September 2010, the following decisions were taken:


FORMULA ONE

The 2011 Formula One World Championship calendar is confirmed as follows:


13/03 Bahrain
27/03 Australia
10/04 Malaysia
17/04 China
08/05 Turkey
22/05 Spain
29/05 Monaco
12/06 Canada
26/06 Europe
10/07 Great Britain
24/07 Germany
31/07 Hungary
28/08 Belgium
11/09 Italy
25/09 Singapore
09/10 Japan
16/10 Korea
30/10 India*
13/11 Abu Dhabi
27/11 Brazil


* Subject to the homologation of the circuit

2011 new entries:

Following the press release of 19 March 2010 calling for expressions of interest to participate in the 2011 and 2012 seasons of the FIA Formula One World Championship, a number of interested parties expressed their interest. It was considered that none of the candidates met the requirements to be granted an entry into the Championship.

Consequently, the allocation of the 13th team will not be granted.



WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP

Commencing 2011 each World Rally Championship (WRC) event must include one special stage on the final day for the purpose of enhancing television coverage. The fastest drivers and co-drivers will be awarded additional points (3-2-1) in accordance with the general classification of this stage.

An FIA Production Car Cup for drivers of 2WD cars entered in the Production Car World Rally Championship (PWRC) will be introduced in 2011 to encourage competitors in Group R cars. At each round of the PWRC, a separate classification will be produced for the drivers of 2WD cars and points allocated according to the same scale as the Championship. The Production Car Cup will be awarded to the driver who has scored the highest number of points. As entrants in the PWRC, drivers of 2WD cars must nominate their events from a list and can score points in both the PWRC and Production Car Cup.

From 2011, cars eligible to contest the FIA Super 2000 World Rally Championship must have a normally aspirated engine with a cylinder capacity of less than 2000cc. There will be no FIA WRC Cup from 2011.

After the fourth event in the 2011 WRC calendar, Manufacturer and WRC Teams are permitted to use a maximum of two engines per car for the remaining nine events.

Commencing from 2011, all cars will start special stages at one-minute intervals, to increase interest for spectators.

From 2011, Priority 2 drivers who have contested more than two consecutive rounds of the World Rally Championship will be awarded Priority 1 status for the remainder of the season. These drivers must then comply with the regulations pertaining to WRC Teams.

A specialist group representing interested parties will review the possibility of introducing GT cars to WRC events.

The FIA in association with the WRC promoter will establish an Academy for young drivers.





GT1

Following the cancellation of the Durban event on 7 November 2010, a replacement event in Navarra, Spain will take place on 24-25 October 2010.

The notion of ‘manufacturer’ is introduced into the Championship. In addition to the drivers and teams titles, a new title will be awarded.


WORLD TOURING CAR CHAMPIONSHIP

The Super 2000 cars/ 2011 Appendix J, i.e. powered by 1.6 l turbo engine, are accepted in addition to Super 2000 cars, Diesel 2000 cars in conformity with 2010 Appendix J and so-called national cars.

The 2011 FIA World Touring Car Championship calendar is as follows:


20/03 Curitiba (BRA)
03/04 Buenos Aires (ARG)*
15/05 Monza (ITA)
05/06 Marrakech (MAR)*
19/06 Brno (CZE)
03/07 Porto (PRT)
17/07 Brands Hatch (GBR)*
31/07 Oschersleben (DEU)
04/09* Valencia (ESP)
23/10 Suzuka (JPN)
05/11 TBA (CHN)*
20/11 Macao (CHN)



*Subject to confirmation from the ASN.


DRIVING CONDUCT

The FIA, both in its motor sport and mobility roles, has a strong interest in promoting road safety. Competitors at FIA events must act as ambassadors for the sport, be aware their conduct on the road must be exemplary and respect road safety rules. A proposal to amend the international sporting code will be submitted to the FIA General Assembly to clarify that any holder of an International Super Licence must also be in possession of a current road driving licence. Additionally, the Code will be amended to clarify that if an International Super Licence holder is involved in a serious road traffic offence recognised by a national police authority, the FIA, depending on the severity of the case, may issue a warning or refer the matter to the International Disciplinary Tribunal, which may temporarily or indefinitely withdraw the competitor’s International Super Licence.


“COMPETITOR’S STAFF” LICENCE

The World Motor Sport Council will submit a proposal to the General Assembly that a specific licence is created for a restricted list of members of staff of the competitors entered in the FIA World Championships. The aim is to introduce a system that ensures they are subject to the criteria set out in a new FIA Code of Good Standing. This would apply to a minimum of six people per competitor, including the Team Principal, Sporting Director, Team Manager, Technical Director and two race engineers (or equivalent).

A new mechanism will be introduced to control access to areas under the jurisdiction of the FIA and no pass of any kind will be issued to any person or body who is not in good standing for the purposes of the FIA International Sporting Code. Entrants will also become responsible for their staff, meaning any person connected directly or indirectly with the entrant in connection with their participation in an event.

Sports Commissions
A comprehensive revision of the Sporting Commissions was approved ahead of upcoming World Motor Sport Council meetings and the Annual General Assembly, 3-5 November 2010.

Decade of Action for Road Safety
A working group will be formed to promote the objectives of the Decade of Action for Road Safety. This group will work in synergy with the sport and mobility pillars of the FIA.[/quote]
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
“COMPETITOR’S STAFF” LICENCE

The World Motor Sport Council will submit a proposal to the General Assembly that a specific licence is created for a restricted list of members of staff of the competitors entered in the FIA World Championships. The aim is to introduce a system that ensures they are subject to the criteria set out in a new FIA Code of Good Standing. This would apply to a minimum of six people per competitor, including the Team Principal, Sporting Director, Team Manager, Technical Director and two race engineers (or equivalent).

A new mechanism will be introduced to control access to areas under the jurisdiction of the FIA and no pass of any kind will be issued to any person or body who is not in good standing for the purposes of the FIA International Sporting Code. Entrants will also become responsible for their staff, meaning any person connected directly or indirectly with the entrant in connection with their participation in an event.
Is this to stop Flav going to races?

Also, 27th Nov!!!
 
As much as I am sad to see there is no 13th team, the FIA left it far too late to decide who the new team will be and it is likely whoever was accepted would have been in a similar situation to Hispania this year or even suffer the same fate as USF1

I agree with the fact that the FIA should now be accepting applicants for 2012, and make their decision early next year. Back in the mid 1990's Stewart GP applied for the 1997 season in early 1996 and were accepted soon after, giving them a year to get ready. In contrast, Lola were accepted originally accepted for 1998 but made a call late in 1996 to race in 1997 instead, and consequently were 11secs off the pace. The sooner the new applicant is accepted the better prepared they will definitely be
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Paul_Murtagh said:
As much as I am sad to see there is no 13th team, the FIA left it far too late to decide who the new team will be and it is likely whoever was accepted would have been in a similar situation to Hispania this year or even suffer the same fate as USF1
Fully agree Paul.

I've said the same thing several times once we found the announcement was going to be made in September, just months before winter testing for the new season.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Brogan said:
Paul_Murtagh said:
As much as I am sad to see there is no 13th team, the FIA left it far too late to decide who the new team will be and it is likely whoever was accepted would have been in a similar situation to Hispania this year or even suffer the same fate as USF1
Fully agree Paul.

I've said the same thing several times once we found the announcement was going to be made in September, just months before winter testing for the new season.


There might even be another space up for grabs.Maybe one of the hopefuls could buy Hispania as they look extremely shaky.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=41929
 
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