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Discussion in 'Gravel Trap' started by Hamberg, Jan 10, 2015.

  1. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    The problem this weekend is that there were not enough people there with multiple guns. If there had been ho would have been mown down instantly; ask any US citizen.

  2. Lewywo4

    Lewywo4 Race Winner

    I'm just waiting for the day, when anybody could legally buy one of these :censored: things over here in the good old USA.

    Olivier likes this.
  3. Olivier

    Olivier Race Winner

    I understand Americans don't trust their own government and also the self-reliance sentiment among them to fend for themselves against immigrants, thieves, criminals, prowlers, muslims or whatever group of people they are afraid of but I'm just wondering; what situation would grant for an average US citizen to need to use a machine gun ...
  4. Lewywo4

    Lewywo4 Race Winner

    A reasonable person wouldn't think along those lines Oliver.
  5. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

    its truly sad & horrific event. my thoughts are with families who are grieving. whereas i have sympathy for those involved

    (this is going to sound harsher than is meant too) its getting harder to have sympathy for America in general in the last few years . unfortunately until they change there gun laws which with there gun culture is highly unlikely. will happen again & again. as i think i remember about 3 or 4 similar shootings in america in last 4 years. they wont help themselves
    Greenlantern101 likes this.
  6. Titch

    Titch Champion Elect Premium Contributor

    True F1Brits_90 . In the meantime it’s not somewhere I want to go on Holiday.
  7. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

    "another NORMAL American"!!!???

    So you think all Americans are mass-muderers-in-waiting?
  8. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

    It also appears that he had Ammonium Nitrate, and may have had plans to build bombs.
  9. Lewywo4

    Lewywo4 Race Winner

    ....Gun culture is very strong here in America, especially in the west, south, and now have developed in urban centers throughout the country. The Congress have been totally co-opted by gun manufacturers, and special interests groups like the NRA (National Rifle Association). Necessary changes will never occur here. As long as these groups have a stranglehold on the Congress, and the citizenry who are obsessed with the 2nd Amendment.

    To get an idea how crazy it's over here. I just saw a commercial with Donald Trump Jr. right before the election. Calling for the use of silencers in order to protect your hearing, and it's use with all kinds of firearms.......:censored: silencers.

    You might find this commercial : Donald Trump Jr backs hearing protection......:twisted:
  10. marksawatsky

    marksawatsky Podium Finisher Contributor

    My 2 cents: I live in Canada and we also have a lot of people who own guns, and there are deep connections between Canada and the USA. However, we have 1.97 deaths per 100,000 people due to firearms and the USA has 10.54 deaths per 100,000 people due to firearms. These stats includes suicides, accidental fatalities, and justifiable homicides. How could this be? I believe it is primarily because Canada has a country wide program for gun ownership that is exactly the same from one end to the other. The program involves applying for your unrestricted or restricted gun ownership. Unrestricted guns are just rifles and shotguns and restricted guns are semi-auto or full auto rifles and handguns. Obviously, getting your unrestricted permit is easier but still involves criminal background check and medical history, including mental illness and a one day course on gun safety. Getting your restricted permit involves getting letters of recommendation from members of the community with higher standing (doctor,lawyer,police officer, clergy,etc) and your spouse and any ex-spouse has to sign off on it as well. BTW, an ex-spouse not signing off on it isn't necessarily a death sentence for your restricted permit, but it adds to the delay. You also have to do an additional day of gun safety and join a gun club, and once you have completed that, you can buy damn near any gun you want. Guns have to be double locked (trigger locked, in a safe) with ammo stored separately. I have my restricted permit and have had no trouble purchasing guns, and have even purchased online and had them delivered to my door. I have bought and sold at gun shows without a problem, all done legally. I have been trained how to handle and store a firearm. My sister-in-law lives in Vegas and legally purchased a handgun down there. When we went to visit, she pulled her .38 out of the drawer beside her bed and waved it around to show us. We both hit the deck and she laughed at us and said "The safety is on". But, from our training, we knew that the safety being on means nothing if you drop the weapon, it can still fire. Her gun was an accident waiting to happen, because she wasn't trained on how to use it or store it. Mine are all locked up because I was made aware of the dangers during my weekend of training. Americans can still have their guns, but they need a country wide system like Canada has.
  11. Andyoak

    Andyoak Race Winner

    That is one of the best arguments I've heard for gun control: Not banning, just education and control.

    I think part of the US problem is that these discussions only happen after an atrocity. Lots of knee jerk reaction noise and then a total loss of momentum to actually manage the problem with sensible legislation.
  12. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

  13. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    During my RAF basic training we had sessions with rifles and bren guns. During one of the bren gun sessions we were told to fire in short bursts, one airman froze on the trigger and emptied the whole magazine; he was not totally steady (to put it mildly) which was very frightening.

    Allowing any Tom, Dick or Mary to use any type of gun with no proper checks or training strikes me as madness.
    Greenlantern101 likes this.
  14. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

    I have always been a believer in the idea of Universal Military Service, as I think it would provide several society-wide benefits:

    1. Weapons training for the population as a whole
    2. Exposure to high-stress "panic" situations, so people would know how to react in emergencies
    3. Create a sense of shared sacrifice. I think that this is one of the things that made my parents' generation so great and made post-WW2 society function so well.
    4. In Australia, at least, I believe that the self-discipline that military training would impose would go a long way towards eliminating the burgeoning obesity problem that is arising. I would say the Americans would reap even greater benefits along this line.

    I think that all of this would mean a society that is less self-centered, conflict-riven and violent, and one that is more open to opposing viewpoints, religions etc. Mankind would be much better off were that the case.
  15. Olivier

    Olivier Race Winner

    I respectfully disagree with that siffert_fan; not everyone wants to be close to weapons or be forced to follow a line of command, even if this reaps (hidden) benefits
  16. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

    I understand that, Olivier, but that is another of the benefits of military service: teaching the populace that you can't always get what you want; that society's needs outweigh YOUR desires.

    I certainly didn't want to be sent to Viet Nam to kill my fellow man, but we had treaty obligations to defend South Viet Nam, and therefore my government decided that they had to send men (including me), willing or not, to fulfill the obligation. That was an important life lesson for me. (I spent most of my tour attached to an American unit, because of my lack of love of the chain of command).

    I also find it interesting that it seems to me that most of the high-profile hate mongers (near my age) in America dodged the draft. Is that a coincidence?
  17. Andyoak

    Andyoak Race Winner

    When I worked in Israel I saw too many young, enthusiastic, open and friendly people go in to do their National Service and come out ignorant arseholes.

    Israel's saving grace was offering agricultural kibbutz work to 'pacifists'... They retained their openness and optimism.

    That experience convinced me that military National Service isn't the answer to anything.

    Service in work, the voluntary sector and paid, is good. If you are respected and wanted you will be a good citizen.

    The freedom to own guns is an archaic irrelevance in a mature nation; especially when inherently tied to historical and cultural precedent. If that argument stood any rational debate we would still have slavery; ritual execution; bear baiting...
    F1Brits_90, Hamberg and gethinceri like this.
  18. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

    I Don't favour military national service but a national service of sort. If every 16 year old was required to spend a month assisting paramedics on first call responses I wonder if it might make an impression. Seeing everything from drunken messes on Saturday nights to serious accidents to old age diseases might make an impression that will lead to more mature decisions growing up.

    I dunno - just an idea. In the UK we have no guns to speak of so I come from a different perspective.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  19. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

    Gun Deaths per 100,000

    UK 0.23
    USA 10.54
    Honduras 67.18

    Maybe avoid Honduras for your holidays.
    F1Brits_90 likes this.
  20. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

    I'm still wondering how you can kill .23 of someone? LOL

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