Current Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton MBE

A place to put all the posts from all the other threads primarily but love him or hate him, and even for the indifferent amongst us this is the place to discuss the marmite that is Lewis Hamilton, to learn a thing or two about his rise, talk about those controversial, genius or mad moments and something that i am bemused by, the recent articles that suggest something quite different to my perception of what's going on. Any experiences of meeting LH?

Brundle had to write a Lewis Hamilton article recently and in my tweets (which were probably ignored) I asked him to talk about LH the driver not LH the personality. It seems that you can't have one without the other.

So as a starter for ten, here is a fairly recent LH article. Posts should not be limited to this link but it can get some discussion going. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13755883.stm

The only banned topic as it is clearly ridiculous involves these four things "Glock" "2008" "Brazil" "conspiracy"

 

[FB]

All these things must mount up though. If your not in a good place personally, then your team mate beats you and a new "young buck" comes in and steals your thunder they all must have an effect. Let's hope his revitalised relationship with Nicole lasts, you can see it going wrong at some point in the season and if the Mclaren isn't quick, or Button carries on in the same form as last year Lewis could have a very tough time.

 

[Brogan]

Personally I don't think he has the mental strength, which is surprising considering his début season where he went up against a double world champion and very nearly pulled off the first rookie WDC.

Still, this is probably a discussion better off in the Hamilton thread, so I have moved the posts.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I think he has shown the mental strength over and over by his performances in the races after a slump or after a setback. We have seen races were he has demonstrated mental strength and this isn't lost from race to race

I personally doubt he is affected by the success of Vettel or his team mate. He has said and acted as such

I think its more his interest and focus when things seem to be stacking up against him, on and off the field. I think if he cant win he is not bothered about second place so much, a bit like Raikonnen. I do not think McLaren are capable of delivering the fastest car from the start but I also beleive that with a car that is very close he can win.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I think he has shown the mental strength over and over by his performances in the races after a slump or after a setback. We have seen races were he has demonstrated mental strength and this isn't lost from race to race

I personally doubt he is affected by the success of Vettel or his team mate. He has said and acted as such

I think its more his interest and focus when things seem to be stacking up against him, on and off the field. I think if he cant win he is not bothered about second place so much, a bit like Raikonnen. I do not think McLaren are capable of delivering the fastest car from the start but I also beleive that with a car that is very close he can win.

Mental strength of the required level would enable you to turn up every weekend in the same shape with the same confidence and the same approach. The fact that he has been unable to do this, shows a lack of mental strength. Sure, he's performed in adversity, but only when he has had the right head on his shoulders. This is his biggest problem. He has the talent, for sure, but unless he learns to access it and harvest it at will he's doomed to underachieve.

 

[Josh]

Tbh I just hope he does okay, if not it's going to be a very frustrating season again (and not just for his fans).

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Mental strength of the required level would enable you to turn up every weekend in the same shape with the same confidence and the same approach. .

That really couldn't be said for any driver on the grid, including those with WCs. It couldn't be said for Kimi, MS recently, Button, at least up to last year, it couldn't be said all through his career for Alonso, as for Massa, Webber and almost every other, it couldn't be said.

There is not one driver who has turned up for every single race each time 'in the zone' We do not know how others would have coped with Lewis' particular set of pressures last year

If we speak about last year then Vettel possibly approached it, but he had very few distractions as well as the best car

So 'mental strength of the required level?' yours and others subjective opinion, its of course up to Lewis to change this perception amongst some

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Mental strength of the required desired level

Fixed that with one word change.

----- but -----

For the avoidance of any further doubt, I'll write you a little essay

The biggest reason that Lewis Hamilton had a poor season (by his own standards) is that he turned up to too many of the races with the wrong mental outlook. It affected his decisions, his behaviour and his ability to consistently perform for the team and for himself - both in and out of the car. A higher degree of mental resilience would have undoubtedly got him a better championship finish than he ended up with.

I've been through it too. I've screwed up employments, lost stock amongst my professional peers and let people down in the past - and for similar reasons. Thankfully for Lewis, and myself, even with the screw-ups we still have had the talent to outperform many of our rivals. It's not enough though. It sucks to know that I underperformed, it sucks to know that other people know I underperformed, and it sucks to know that somebody I am in competition with did a better job than me - and what sucks the most is that I know it was all down to the way that I failed to managed my focus and rationalise my decisions.

I'm certainly stronger now than I used to be and I continue to get stronger as I am sure Lewis will, but there are others who won't be shaken in the same way because it's just not in their make up.

I support Lewis over all the drivers, largely because he is the one I personally identify with the most, but I don't make excuses for him and, whilst I used to, I don't make excuses for myself either. At least I try not to.

[EDIT] Kerpow!

 

[racecub]

he just seems not as happy cheerful as before, he has already been found doubting the car and while this season wont be like last years it just wont be a title winning one unless mclaren does have the fastest car.

Well its unlikely he'll win if his car is substantially slower than other cars, thats true, but he seems reasonably happy with things.He's not the starry eyed rookie now, he realises the score, but as i said before the regs suit him better this year. If he can reach or exceed his potential then I think he'll be happy.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I'm certainly stronger now than I used to be and I continue to get stronger as I am sure Lewis will, but there are others who won't be shaken in the same way because it's just not in their make up.

You can speak for yourself, but I do not believe anyone can enter the sport under the 'trailblazing' banner with its scrutiny and prejudice and not be as mentally strong if not more than the others

Maybe he is not mentally strong enough to cope with much much more crap than his closest competitors (lets not beat about the bush here, he attracts bigotry) and still beat them. But would we really blame any of the others for losing focus in his shoes in 2011?

Do we say Kimi is not mentally strong enough for leaving the sport?
Do we say Alonso is not mentally strong enough for the outcome of 2007?

Or do we just say Vettel and Button are mentally strongest because one had the best car and the other had his best season whilst Lewis who is unique in the pressures he shoulders had a mare, like many many WCs have had and will have periodically?

A swallow, does not a summer make, lets see if he messes up again because of his lovelife and the death of some friends. I reckon we need to resist jumping on the bandwagon and saying he is not mentally strong enough to ever win in a car that is not best

oh, hold on.....

 

[KekeTheKing]

Has any driver's mental framework been discussed more than Lewis Hamilton's? Any human being for that matter?

The constant stream of stories peddling in this nonsense have done more to disadvantage the guy then any actual or perceived instability in his mental makeup.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Lewis himself has said;

Not affected by Vettels success
Not affected by Buttons success
Not worried by his slump in results last year, he has done things to change it (new on hands manager etc)

But all he has to do is say the car could be faster and he is suddenly mentally unhinged and weaker than than his competitors

 

[FB]

The mental frailties of British sportsmen (real or perceived) are always discussed to death, Lewis is not unusual or unique in this respect. Jenson took a load of abuse early in his career for not being focused, being a playboy, always making the wrong choices in terms of teams. Mansell was the perennial choker, James Hunt & Barry Sheene used to have their private lives splashed across the tabloids on a weekly basis.

The British press and the British people love to build their stars up and then knock them down why should Lewis be any different in this respect? I'm not saying it's right but it's a fact of life for British sports stars.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Lewis' performance on track and his life outside of F1 should not correlate. Mental strength in the vein that we are discussing is the ability to separate these things. I don't want to hear about his personal life. I want to watch him drive to the best of his ability. He didn't do that last year because he couldn't leave his issues at home when he went racing.

It really is that simple.

I'm not talking about Jenson, Kimi or anyone else. I'm talking about Lewis. The only reason I am talking about him is because I am sick of people making excuses for him and, to be honest, I got a bit sick of him making excuses for himself too last year. I would imagine many people inside McLaren felt the same. I'm sure they don't give a stuff about pussycat dolls. They just want someone who can put the car they have built in the positions it deserves to be in. They know Lewis is capable of that, but to do it consistently he'll need to be a bit more mentally resilient.

I can't see for the life of me how that can be counter argued without diversion or misdirection.

 

[KekeTheKing]

The British press and the British people love to build their stars up and then knock them down why should Lewis be any different in this respect? I'm not saying it's right but it's a fact of life for British sports stars.

Today's internet/twitter/24-hour newscycle has magnified this phenomenon to a disturbing degree. Nothing prior to 2003/4 is even comparable to now.

The world wide web is certainly a blessing and a curse for the modern man.

But your point is duly noted FB.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

He has the talent, for sure, but unless he learns to access it and harvest it at will he's doomed to underachieve.

Underachieve? 1st year runner up, 2nd year winner, third year bad car, 4th year in the running on last day

so in 2011 he was unable to beat Vettels package and had a few issues, his team mate who is a WC and had his best season also got whipped silly by Vettel, Lewis was not too far off his team-mate

If button had been close to Vettel in the points then I would say Lewis underachieved

Button, who came second was nowhere near Vettel, therefore the argument for under achievement is marginal if achieving means winning a WC

Anyway, Lewis could have won 2010, so he messed up
could he have won 2011? nah

and 2012 lets see how the season develops before jumping to hard and fast conclusions

Button, Rosberg, Kimi, Alonso, Lewis n out of that bunch considering their years in F1 and their cars for each of those years, Lewis has under achieved?

Unless you are saying Lewis is so much better than the others he has underachieved for his level, in that case I say he has only had 5 years, lets wait another 5, or till he retires to pass that judgement

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I haven't said that Lewis has under achieved. He certainly did last season but I made reference to his future and I also placed a condition on the statement that he will need to up his performance. His performance relative to others is still fantastic, but Lewis has lead us to expect the same things that he expects from himself, which is more than he is recently delivered. If he continues to perform below the potential dictated by the level of his talent then, yes, he will have under achieved.

Your response to me seems to ignore what I have actually said and is full of misquotes and misinterpretation, which is strange as I have tried to be extremely explicit.

I would call this a circular argument but you are not actually arguing with any of my points. You are responding to things that I have not even said. Please, if you want to debate my points, do so and I will be happy to oblige. But I am not going to defend things that I have not even said.

 

[Lewywo4]

Whether Lewis ever will return in the eyes of some, to front running status or form, is something that Helmut Markos really hopes doesn't happen. After Hamiton's win at Abu Dhabi Markos said, " For us we would not have minded if Hamilton stayed quiet for even longer, and when he is back at 100%, Mr Hamilton is a dangerous opponent. "

Remaining quiet......I don't think that Markos will get his wish in 2012!

 

[Lewywo4]

Underachieve? 1st year runner up, 2nd year winner, third year bad car, 4th year in the running on last day

so in 2011 he was unable to beat Vettels package and had a few issues, his team mate who is a WC and had his best season also got whipped silly by Vettel, Lewis was not too far off his team-mate

If button had been close to Vettel in the points then I would say Lewis underachieved

Button, who came second was nowhere near Vettel, therefore the argument for under achievement is marginal if achieving means winning a WC

Anyway, Lewis could have won 2010, so he messed up
could he have won 2011? nah

and 2012 lets see how the season develops before jumping to hard and fast conclusions

Button, Rosberg, Kimi, Alonso, Lewis n out of that bunch considering their years in F1 and their cars for each of those years, Lewis has under achieved?

Unless you are saying Lewis is so much better than the others he has underachieved for his level, in that case I say he has only had 5 years, lets wait another 5, or till he retires to pass that judgement

An absolute well thoughout, and spot on analysis

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Achievement is not measured on your performance against others. The only person that counts is beating yourself. That's why Button is so happy these days. He is driving to his full potential. That's also why McLaren are so happy with him.

People should strive to be the best they can be, not the best someone else can be. What Lewis has on his side is that he can be at least as good and probably better than anyone else, but only if he can harness his own potential. If he does that, and continues to do it as he has in the past then there is no reason to think he will ever look back and think he underachieved. If he looks back and know he could have done more personally to have achieved more than his final tally, then it will be an underachievement, regardless of how he measures up against anyone else in the record books. Fulfilment is a personal thing. Ask Coulthard. He's happy with what he achieved but he knows, also, that he just wasn't as good as some of the people he was competing against.

 

[Vortex]

Achievement is not measured on your performance against others. The only person that counts is beating yourself.

Thats loser talk!