New new teams?

Jos the Boss

Champion Elect
With an F1 grid currently possesing 24 starters, would you welcome more teams or pre-qualifying to separate the really slow teams from the slow. USF1, Villeneueve GP and Stefan F1 are just some of the teams that were refused entry but I think that the more the better but I would have a limit of starters for places like Monaco for health and safety.

Also with more starters it would mean that big drivers could go to midfield teams and try to build them up Schumacher-esque. Imagine Lewis Hamilton in a Sauber or Fernando Alonso in a Force India or even Jenson Button in a Virgin.

But to the original point would you welcome more teams? an expansion to the grid, would it bring more excitment or just health risks?
 

Jen

Here be dragons.
Contributor
I would prefer that they all buggered off, including the three that can't hack it this season - what can any of them add to the racing, apart from getting in the way.
 

Jen

Here be dragons.
Contributor
F1 is time sensitive and if you've had two seasons and are still at the back best to start thinking on.

Rome wasn't built in a day but it lasted centuries eventually - racing is a bit more immediate,hopefully.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
If you're going to kick new teams out after two seasons for not scoring points or winning any races, then you're going to have new teams every two seasons.

Perhaps if they hadn't been forced to take Cosworth engines and allowed to do some testing to catch up with the decades of data the other teams have, they might have had a chance.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
How come Jordan was able to compete for points in it's first season but not these 3 new teams? What is are major differences? I am not sure but I think Jordan was built from scratch was it not just like these 3 new teams.
 

Johnny Carwash

Champion Elect
Contributor
Of the three new teams it only seems to be Lotus that are improving. Of coarse you don't want HRT and Virgin to be 5 or 6 seconds of the pace every year but it was only a few years ago that Force India were at the back of the grid making up the numbers, but now there are getting in to Q3 quite regularly and scoring some good points in races aswell.
 
If you're going to kick new teams out after two seasons for not scoring points or winning any races, then you're going to have new teams every two seasons.

Perhaps if they hadn't been forced to take Cosworth engines and allowed to do some testing to catch up with the decades of data the other teams have, they might have had a chance.

Perhaps that could be an idea for the end of the season. That whoever finish 1st in the WCC is allowed 1 day of 6 hour testing, the team that finished 2nd is allowed 2 days and so on down to 12 days for the team in last. This would be done perhaps either at the end of that season or at the beginning of the next.

Thoughts...?
 
How come Jordan was able to compete for points in it's first season but not these 3 new teams? What is are major differences? I am not sure but I think Jordan was built from scratch was it not just like these 3 new teams.

Didn't Jordan come from F3, when you could just strap a bigger engine on and be as quick as an F1 car? I wasn't born back then, so I don't know, and I think they were able to score points because of the terrible reliability back then.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Didn't Jordan come from F3, when you could just strap a bigger engine on and be as quick as an F1 car? I wasn't born back then, so I don't know, and I think they were able to score points cos of the terrible reliability back then.

The reliability is a good point, but even then Jordan wasn't surely that far off the pace like the current new teams, I am in the same position as you, I didn't watch F1 back then as I was probably just born or was a toddler
 

The Pits

Harumph. Again.
Valued Member
Jordan had experienced staff and contacts, and a reasonable budget, having been involved in motorsport for a while, also, the technology involved was a way off the current levels. Nowadays, a good wind tunnel and CFD are expensive, yet essential.

That said, BAR did not do so well to start with, and through the years there have been many teams who have started off well off the pace.

Personally, the new teams are essential to the ongoing success of F1, I think they are mostly going in the right direction, forging technical alliances, and they are all significantly closer this year that they were last, and Lotus have had races where they have finished ahead of established teams, notably singapore, so they are not doing badly in the general scheme of things.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
How come Jordan was able to compete for points in it's first season but not these 3 new teams? What is are major differences? I am not sure but I think Jordan was built from scratch was it not just like these 3 new teams.

Jordan were a top team in F3000 which was the main feeder series back then. They had a top designer in the shape of Gary Anderson and he designed an effective simple car which used the reliable and efficient Ford HB V8 Engine which was the same engine in the Benneton that season. John Watson who had been testing the car for several months before the team launched officially had pursauded Anderson to keep things simple and produce a car that may not have been the most advanced but woiuld finish races. Most improtantly there was no such thing as development freezes and homogolation of chasis so there was constant development work going on.

I disagree with your statement Jen and disagreed with Eddie Jordan when he said nearly the same thing before the Italian GP. The fact that, for example, Lotus Air Asia have made up something like 4 seconds on average in two years given all the restrictions placed on development and testing is amazing. I know Lotus, Virgin and HRT have had to come a long way from behind but they are doing some sterling work in the face of a very difficult set of rules.

To put it further into context, just 10 years after Jordan made their debut in F1, Toyota spent the whole of 2001 testing their car for the 2002 season debut and manged to conduct tests at 11 different circuits on the F1 calander. Their reward for well over a year of testing and development and a the budget and support of a full factory team was just 2 points.
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
Didn't help the 'new' teams that they came into F1 when there was all the arguing about the budget cap.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I think there should be 13 teams, no more and no less. Pre-qualifying was pretty destructive.

If HRT and Virgin continue to languish at the back, no doubt some enterprising soul (or car company) will snap them up and spend some cash. An F1 grid slot is a very desirable thing, whichever end it happens to be at.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
What I would really welcome is an end to the stipulation that all teams must provide two cars. I think that that should be the maximum, and that single-car teams should be allowed. They could be original chassis (a la Hesketh) or customer cars, like Rob Walker racing which used Cooper and Lotus chassis. Many great drivers came up through private teams in the past: Jochen Rindt, Jack Brabham, Alan Jones, James Hunt, Niki Lauda all got their start in F1 with private teams.
 
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