Most regressed drivers since 2010 from Murray Walker

Il_leone

Champion Elect
and on his latest Q &A on his 4 most regressed drivers since 2010

1) Felipe Massa
2) Mark Webber
3) Nick Heidfeld

and sadly

4) Lewis Hamilton
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
if you think where Renault were at the beginning of the season Heidfeld has gone backwards in terms of quali and Petrov has been getting the better of him or at least closer

Its seems a long time ago now people were talking about Heidfeld and Renault as dark horses for race wins. Murray thinks its end of the line for Heidfeld
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
Think that was 2005 because he was at Toro Rosso in 2006, but yeah he's not really done anything spectacular.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
well if you think he's always been rubbish then he's not 'regressed' then has he?

personally I think you're both being a bit on the harsh side on poor old Antonio - I can think of far worse drivers
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
I would have to agree with the Barichello comment. He is one of my fave drivers of all time but sorry Rubens, you've just got nothing left in the tank. Time to hang up the boots mate.

I don't agree with Hamilton having regressed. He's made more mistakes for sure but when he's on it, he's on it. I bet Murry hasn't taken into account the performance difference in the Vettel / Red Bull combination this year compared to last.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Liuzzi apart from Toro Rosso he's hardly had a fair chance at F1 to show his supposed talent

Red Bull - he was given the same 1 year contract as Kleing for 2005 but only appeared in 4 races instead of alternative races partly because Klein is Austrian might be something to do with it

Originally Red Bull wanted Klein and Liuzzi as their drivers for 2005 but Horner managed to persuade Matersich that one experience driver is needed hence DC got the drive despite initially Dieter not being warmed to the idea

At Toro Rosso he was up against Speed so its hard to tell. Then he had Vettel to contend with for a few races and was outpaced in Fuji and China which made people take note of Seb even more

Otherwise the Force India situation where he was regarded as talented but got his chance mid 2009 when Fisi decided one last hurrah at Ferrari to fulfill his dreams but he had no testing

Then 2010 he had to contend with car sharing with Di Resta despite some strong races but some of his quali performances was not up to scratch
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
I would have to agree with the Barichello comment. He is one of my fave drivers of all time but sorry Rubens, you've just got nothing left in the tank. Time to hang up the boots mate.

I don't agree with Hamilton having regressed. He's made more mistakes for sure but when he's on it, he's on it. I bet Murry hasn't taken into account the performance difference in the Vettel / Red Bull combination this year compared to last.

Oh yes he has is you look at the most improved drivers thread and compare it in relation to his teammate Mark Webber when they were closer last year

Murray is fan of Lewis and he is openly honest about it if you listen to his Q & A - some of it is his fault, some of it is his team
 
People are being so rough on Heidfeld. There was really nothing between him and Petrov .Now, four races after Nick's departure, he's still just two points behind the Russian, with his replacement only garnering two points, while finishing well worse than Heidfeld did during his stint this season. It's true that the Renault has fared a bit worse, but I don't reckong Heidfeld is any worse than many of the mid-tier drivers out there.
 

Clinton

Rookie
Felipe Massa - demoralised by lack of support from team/ number 2 status

Mark Webber - demoralised by lack of support from team/ number 2 status

Lewis Hamilton - appears to have allowed Button to establish a better relationship with his team than he enjoys. Note his rather bemused complaint about the car's lack of grip today, which Button seemingly did not experience. Also seems to have lost a little focus due to perceived harsh treatment by the stewards and issues with the media.

Nick Heidfeld - Rather harsh! He wasn't even racing for most of 2010, and was narrowly beating Petrov in 2011 who has himself improved this year. I feel that Nick was a better option for Renault than Senna will prove to be.

So the three picks that I agree with concern the driver's all-important relationship with his team, and their ability to meet his needs for the car and in general. That makes sense, because drivers don't lose their talent overnight.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Heidfeld's performance seems to gone downhill along with the car . I think the expectations at Renault was he was close to Kubica and is highly rated by some and they've asked him to lead the team but he has not delivered.

it was noted during his BMW days when Kubica got the better of him in 2008 he was more famous for his moaning and downcast mood and was nicknamed by the German press called him "Leidfeld" ( misery)

I think this attitude might have shone through when Renault were struggling and lead to more disagreements rather than working together

I think Kubica made Renault look better than it should at some tracks last year
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Mark Webber - demoralised by lack of support from team/ number 2 status

Even if he's became the team's "number 2" which I doubt he has since he's been able to fight Vettel on track, plus for wins and poles, and if he is "number 2" his position isn't as worse as Massa's as he gets to pick his strategies when to come in to the pits, contrast that to Massa. He was also talking about the title hunt mid-way through the season saying he was still in it and do his most to win. He has been pretty poor, in a car that's won 9 races this season Webber's only achieved two 2nd places, compare that to last year with 4 wins and 4 second places.
 

Clinton

Rookie
Even if he's became the team's "number 2" which I doubt he has since he's been able to fight Vettel on track, plus for wins and poles, and if he is "number 2" his position isn't as worse as Massa's as he gets to pick his strategies when to come in to the pits, contrast that to Massa. He was also talking about the title hunt mid-way through the season saying he was still in it and do his most to win. He has been pretty poor, in a car that's won 9 races this season Webber's only achieved two 2nd places, compare that to last year with 4 wins and 4 second places.

Not as bad as Massa, no. But I think that he has driven worse this season almost as much as Vettel has improved. Clearly it is now Vettel's team, and we can infer that the car is tailored to his needs rather than Webber's, Webber gets inferior response to his feedback, and Webber is demoralised by lack of human support.

None of the drivers ever claims to have given up on the title race; that says little about Mark's feelings regarding his position in the team.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Webber seems to have a knack of making dodgy starts this season. Surely he would have worked out how to use the pedals and cluth on his car by now

Webber has regressed because if Vettel can show that kind of dominance in quali then why can't Webber?

Two races he could and should have won - Spain and Germany both his tracks and he did not

He also blew Canada after switching to dries first but he wasted his time being stuck behind Schumacher whereas Jenson took one go and got Schumacher and got after Vettel...thats the difference between them and thats why Jenson is a world champion and Webber is not
 
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