KERS set-up

downforce

Race Winner
I would like to point out that this was not my idea and I gain no profit from its promotion. All credit goes to F1McLaren who posted this on not606. I thought it was a good idea and I post it here as well.

What would you make of the idea of drivers being able to set KERS up differently for races, or indeed if the technology works and its not overload for the drivers, being able to change its set-up lap to lap?

Changing it lap to lap sounds a bit like work overload but certainly having different set-ups for the whole race could work.

By which I mean atm KERS is limited to 6.7 seconds of 80HP per lap.

What about setting the total power per lap but changing how drivers can choose to use it?

-I mean they could reduce its power per second but increase its time to cover the whole main straight of a track.
-They could reduce its power per second but increase its time to cover the whole main and back straight of a track.
- They could reduce its power per second but increase its time to give a little burst out of every corner.
-They could even increase the power per second and have a couple of seconds burst at the start of a straight or behind another car to really blast past them/stay ahead of a car slipstreaming them.

It would really open up the scope for tactical driving and racing.

I think if they did they should increase the power to maybe 100HP or something.

What do you think of the concept?

here is the not606 article: http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/45859-A-way-to-adapt-KERS
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
There would be an optimum strategy for each circuit and once figured out all teams would use it and it would make no difference.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I think it's a bit far-fetched, it can also make it even more 'confusing' for some viewers.

It's not a bad idea, they should let the teams play with the system a little bit more, but I guess they will probably do that once the teams get familiar with the system first.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Firstly the comepletly wrong statement that KERS can only be used for 6 7 secs per lap.There is no time restrictions at all on KERS energy use.
The only restriction is the amount of energy that can stored and used in any one lap.
The drivers can and do use KERS energy differently at different points on the lap.Its not as is widely and wrongly believed all or nothing.
The driver can use 10% at any given moment if he wishes or any other amount, the ONLY restiction is on the amount of energy that he can use in one lap.
20kj amounts to about 80 bhp.Which at the maximum rate of 20kj recovery would mean that it would last about 6 7 secs.
But that is not what the regulations say. There is simply a maximum amount of energy that can be stored and used in one lap.
There are not time limits at all.

FIA Technical regulations.

5.2 Other means of propulsion :
5.2.1 The use of any device, other than the 2.4 litre, four stroke engine described in 5.1 above and one KERS, to
power the car, is not permitted.
5.2.2 With the exception of one fully charged KERS, the total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car
must not exceed 300kJ. Any which may be recovered at a rate greater than 2kW must not exceed 20kJ.
5.2.3 The maximum power, in or out, of any KERS must not exceed 60kW.
Energy released from the KERS may not exceed 400kJ in any one lap.
Measurements will be taken at the connection to the rear wheel drivetrain.
5.2.4 The amount of stored energy in any KERS may not be increased whilst the car is stationary during a race
pit stop.
Release of power from any such system must remain under the complete control of the driver at all times
the car is on the track.
5.2.5 Cars must be fitted with homologated sensors which provide all necessary signals to the SDR in order to
verify the requirements above are being respected.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
Firstly the comepletly wrong statement that KERS can only be used for 6 7 secs per lap.There is no time restrictions at all on KERS energy use.
The only restriction is the amount of energy that can stored and used in any one lap.
I never knew that. Is the 6.7 secs a hangover from 2009? I'm sure I heard the commentators still referring to it at Barcelona.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
There is not a single F1 commentator or F1 jounalist who has the faintest notion what Kinetic energy recovery is, or even what kinetic energy is.
The regulations are taken from 2010 FIA technical regulations.

If someone can show me the regulation that states KERS can only be used for 6 7 seconds per lap I would be very grateful.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
No, you're right Sportsman; the 2009 Technical regs say no different.
Maybe the 6.7s was an estimate of the time it would take to discharge 400kJ through the system.
So the slider bar on the TV graphic showing how much KERS is left available to the driver, that re-fills on crossing the start line, actually means how much energy has been used rather than how many seconds?
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Yes.The 6 7 seconds is merely a calculation of using the entire stored energy at is maximum rate of 20kj.
The slider bar is an indication of the remaining power.But the energy can be recovered during the entire lap.
 

Jru

Points Scorer
Contributor
I remember in one/some races it has been mentioned that the drivers have been playing around with certain things on the steering wheel altering the KERS function, I think at the time it was explained that they can alter the power. There was nothing in depth though.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
So can the KERS unit itself store more than one lap's worth of energy? In other words, can a driver discharge all his available KERS for one lap just prior to crossing the line, and then still have more boost to use straight away on the new lap, say into the first corner? That's certainly what some of them would appear to be doing.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
The drivers can control how much kers energy they recover.They can also use as much or as little as they want within the regulations.
The cars can recover kers energy at any time during the lap and then use it again immediately.
Its a constant cycle.But they cannot use or store more than the regulations allow.
This is the core of Red Bulls problem. Charging the KERS battery generates heat.They cannot cool it sufficiently.That is why they cannot use it for the entire race.They have to rest it occassionaly to allow the battery to cool down.
If they crossed the line with a fully discharged battery.The moment they brake for the first corner they can recover some energy and then use that immediately.
I don't get the BBC coverage so I can't comment on the graph that you mention.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
I don't get the BBC coverage so I can't comment on the graph that you mention.
There's a small part of the graphic that shows engine revs, throttle, braking etc. which takes the form of a battery level indicator. This indicator is red when 'full' and steadily 'empties' to white as the driver uses more KERS. Every time the car crosses the start/finish line, the symbol instantly shows 'full' again. In the BBC commentary at Barcelona, Brundle referred to the indicator as showing "Not the system itself recharging, but simply re-setting to show how much KERS the driver is allowed (i.e. another 6.7 seconds". Here's a screenshot of the graphic. I had thought that this would be part of the FOM feed, rather than a BBC add-on:
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
I get that one.That merely denotes that the full 400kj is available from that point on.
The regulations state that onboard storage must not exceed .
2.2 With the exception of one fully charged KERS, the total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car
must not exceed 300kJ..
But the total power allowed during one lap is 400kj. So the extra 100kj is harvested during the lap.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Mods.We need this thred merged with Ask the Apex.

Hmm, but it's an interesting discussion on it's own and thanks to all for the input. From what I have read it's possible for the driver not to have to harvest energy during a lap if the battery has enough charge to release for the next lap. I wonder what difference it makes to the car if it's not recovering energy?
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
If the driver elects not to recover energy it only makes a difference the brakes. The cars braking distance will be different as the electrical resistance of the KERS generator acts as an additional braking force.
In reality it has very little effect.
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
That graphic is FOM isn't it? And that screenshot is taken from Speed, also Brundle was saying in Spain he wished the FOM would show that graphic so they could see if Vettel's KERS was working.
 

gethinceri

Lance Stroll Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan.
Contributor
The graphic was also shown on BBC but only appeared after Brundle mentioned it. Not sure if one was linked to the other.
 
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