Grand Prix racing, how it was and how it should be again.

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F1Yorkshire

Avatar for sale to the highest bidder
Contributor
DOF, I know your trolling again.


However I did notice something vaguely conversation worthy in that video. At the finish of the race, how close was the guy with the chequered flag to the finishing cars!

Looking at the lines in the track he must have been stood around 6-12 inches away from the 4th place driver.

Imagine Charlie Whiting doing that now. They were crazy back in those days.
 

Wombcat

Podium Finisher
It really wasn't all lots of excitement that year. In most races the winner finished over 20 seconds in front of the 2nd. The race your referring to was really the exception. Even now it's still an exception. In the history of Formula one there's only one other race where the first 5 finished that close.

In germany that year Stewart won 30 seconds ahead of Cevert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM7iIzs8DHY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qc2aDIzViw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsgxIUzMPtQ&feature=related
Not a lot of passing to be seen here. I think for large parts the commentator was asleep, because he's keeping silent. But at about 10:40 in the 2nd video he actually gets excited, because there is an overtaking manoevre!

Stewart won the championship that year with a really large margin, he finished with 62 points, the 2nd place had only 33. So not much excitement there either.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
What an elegant, considered and measured response.

Much better than my own response which prompted me to stick a fork in the back of my hand... :bored:
 

Mark3121

Rookie
If its that good buy yourself a pair of flared jeans, the 71 season on dvd and some popcorn


Personally I thoroughly enjoyed last season.
 

DOF_power

Banned
It really wasn't all lots of excitement that year. In most races the winner finished over 20 seconds in front of the 2nd. The race your referring to was really the exception. Even now it's still an exception. In the history of Formula one there's only one other race where the first 5 finished that close.

In germany that year Stewart won 30 seconds ahead of Cevert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM7iIzs8DHY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qc2aDIzViw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsgxIUzMPtQ&feature=related
Not a lot of passing to be seen here. I think for large parts the commentator was asleep, because he's keeping silent. But at about 10:40 in the 2nd video he actually gets excited, because there is an overtaking manoevre!

Stewart won the championship that year with a really large margin, he finished with 62 points, the 2nd place had only 33. So not much excitement there either.



I know I've had the Duke season review.
But when in happen it was awesome. And that doesn't at all today. Cars just form trains and don't pass each other.

And nothing happens on the midfield either.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
I remember watching this race in 1981


There's very little overtaking but cars "in a train"; however, it's one of the most exciting races I can remember seeing. Not because cars were flashing past one another like a 125cc bike race but because of the anticipation, the willing one of the drivers to have a go, the admiration of Villeneuve's talent at holding back obviously faster cars in a machine that handle like a dog.

It's not all about overtaking it's about racing.
 

DOF_power

Banned
I remember watching this race in 1981


There's very little overtaking but cars "in a train"; however, it's one of the most exciting races I can remember seeing. Not because cars were flashing past one another like a 125cc bike race but because of the anticipation, the willing one of the drivers to have a go, the admiration of Villeneuve's talent at holding back obviously faster cars in a machine that handle like a dog.

It's not all about overtaking it's about racing.



That was an incredibly lucky race for the drivers not to have pile up.
This would have never happened in the 60s.
Passing is racing, in some series rubbing is racing (or it used to be), but blocking, but blocking is not racing.
Villeneuve should have been black flagged by the stewarts.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
But when in happen it was awesome.

I suspect you weren't actually born when that race was run, I was 13 and probably saw it (my brothers being avid motorsport fans) but I have no actual recollection of it from that time.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
On that DOF, we will have to agree to differ. The ability to know the limits of your car compared to the man behind, to know when to push just hard enough to keep ahead is part of the skill of a racing driver. How many drivers from US race series where slipstreaming, nudging and 200 overtakes a race have successfully made it in F1? Apart from Mario Andretti I can't think of one other.

To suggest Villeneuve should have been black flagged suggest to me you know little about motor racing and I know that's not the case. The problem appears to be that you want F1 to fit into a very narrow skill set and single type or racing such as used to happen almost exclusively at Monza. F1 isn't, and has never been, about a single type of racing hence why it spreads across tracks which have average speeds ranging from 80mph to 150mph.
 

GeoffP

Thank you and good night
Contributor
DOF speaking of black flags....

1981 was the first season I avidly watched and attended, this was the style of racing that drew myself and millions of others to be fans of driving and competing as opposed to the shock addicts requirements for crashing an confrontation.

I wish all newcomers to F1 could understand the relative merits of the cars, tracks, circuits, drivers etc. And how what they have brought to racing has changed over the years... Unfortunately you don't seem to care.

I have had races and seasons where I have despaired of what F1 has become, but it has never taken long for the racing spirit to force it's way out again. If you love racing, which I personally doubt, give it time, what you want will return, just not as a perfect facsimile of your memory, if you don't, get a life!

I shall await the ability to ignore with a growing level of anticipation, and hope you find a suitable bridge.
 

DOF_power

Banned
DOF speaking of black flags....

1981 was the first season I avidly watched and attended, this was the style of racing that drew myself and millions of others to be fans of driving and competing as opposed to the shock addicts requirements for crashing an confrontation.

I wish all newcomers to F1 could understand the relative merits of the cars, tracks, circuits, drivers etc. And how what they have brought to racing has changed over the years... Unfortunately you don't seem to care.

I have had races and seasons where I have despaired of what F1 has become, but it has never taken long for the racing spirit to force it's way out again. If you love racing, which I personally doubt, give it time, what you want will return, just not as a perfect facsimile of your memory, if you don't, get a life!

I shall await the ability to ignore with a growing level of anticipation, and hope you find a suitable bridge.



Before your 1981 discovery of Grand Prix racing, there was a time before and other racefans and racers from different generations with different views of how and what GP racing should be.

Gurney once said that he chose to lose a race because blocking was unacceptable to him. Setting a bad example could have led to massacres back then.

Type Monza 61 on youtube to see what happened when GP racecars touched, long before you 1981 discovery, to see why Gurney said what he said.

Before the days of Gurney, this wasn't even a gentleman's agreement.

There was a time when in GP racing (and other open wheel) when it was written, yes written, that the slower car/driver would not block and was obligated to pull aside to let the faster car/driver pass.

For a long long time (till the late 70s/early 80s) there was this law either written or unwritten (depending on the era) that open wheel racers should avoid blocking and (wheel contact) contact at all costs.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
OK, time for a general point I think.
Some of the comments and behaviour recently have been unacceptable.

My advice for anyone who doesn't agree with the OP is to ignore their posts.

Deliberately taking threads off topic or making personal attacks is just as much against the rules as any other transgression and I'm sure everyone here would get annoyed if the same was happening to them.

An ignore feature will be along at some point in the near future.
In the meantime, either comment on the topic of the thread or don't comment at all.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Odd that I attended my first live F1 GP at the British GP at Aintree and over all the later years have attended live GP's and watched many many more on television.The 1955 race was won by Moss in Mercedes W196 withFangio in the sister car in second place.The Mecedes W196 raised protests from the other teams who said it was ilegal,due to its desmodronic valve gear. I cannot recall these golden years with cars not defending their positions by any way that they could.Wheel contact in an open wheel series is a no brainer.Open wheel cars can't race like that.
There is also the way people thought in those days to consider.To deliberately allow another car to pass you would be seen as cowardice.Thats the reality of being there when it happened.Not information gleaned from youtube or Wikipedia.
More overtaking.Possibly.But much of the overtaking was caused by drivers still racing with engines that were sick and gone off tune.The cars were not reliable.The gearboxes the same.But the cars still kept running at a slower pace.
So having been there, live I do not remember any of these claims.
 

DOF_power

Banned
Odd that I attended my first live F1 GP at the British GP at Aintree and over all the later years have attended live GP's and watched many many more on television.The 1955 race was won by Moss in Mercedes W196 withFangio in the sister car in second place.The Mecedes W196 raised protests from the other teams who said it was ilegal,due to its desmodronic valve gear. I cannot recall these golden years with cars not defending their positions by any way that they could.Wheel contact in an open wheel series is a no brainer.Open wheel cars can't race like that.
There is also the way people thought in those days to consider.To deliberately allow another car to pass you would be seen as cowardice.Thats the reality of being there when it happened.Not information gleaned from youtube or Wikipedia.
More overtaking.Possibly.But much of the overtaking was caused by drivers still racing with engines that were sick and gone off tune.The cars were not reliable.The gearboxes the same.But the cars still kept running at a slower pace.
So having been there, live I do not remember any of these claims.



The driver from those time said they would not block (but re-overtake or drive faster). There were exceptions like Farina and von Tripps, later Regazzoni (or the Ferrari "blockade" in 61), but generally the drivers would not block their opponents up until the 80s.
In the 20 and 30 there was actually a written rule not to block and to pull out of the way.
 
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