From Indy Cars to F1 and back again

[RasputinLives]

The driver era mid-May, 1994 - end of 2002 was a cheap era. It only had two proper Aces (MSC, HAK). Any Grand Prix great will tell you that.

I'm pretty much betting you can't find a quote from any Grand Prix great saying that the 94 - 02 era was cheap era. Mainly because if you could you'd have posted it by now.

Anyways sweeping statements aside lets get back to Nigel eh?

I always found it interesting that during his brief return to F1 in 94 Nigel didn't struggle adapting to the car as much as some of the Indie Car drivers coming into F1. Tne cars were very different from when he'd last drove in 92 so I think it does show that Nigel was a driver he was quick to adapt to changes

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Well, yes, Nigel nearly won the Indy 500 while he was the reigning Formula One World Champion and won the Indy car title first time out.

Michael Andretti, meanwhile, struggled in comparison...but he had Ayrton Senna as a benchmark.

 

[RasputinLives]

Alex Zanardi struggled with the differences in braking so much they consider changing the Williams brake system.

Montoya showed his class and adapted quickly though didn't he?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Ya. Andretti and Zanardi and Bourdais struggled...JV and Juan Pablo were able to perform.

All five were Indy Car champions...the first 3 multiple times.

So, it was hit-and-miss.

Unfortunately, Andretti had Senna as teammate...and Bourdais - a 4 times Indy champion - was partnered by Vettel.

If Vettel is an all-time-great-in-the-making, then Bourdais didn't do too badly and, in retrospect, didn't get a fair shake.

Red Bull have gotten rid of lots of drivers...the competition is very stiff and only a couple of guys have really done well in F1 (Raikkonen, Vettel).

 

[RasputinLives]

I think JV is hard one to judge as he was given a car that was a long way the class of the field. JPM certainly didn't have that advantage yet should have taken a victory in his 3rd Grand Prix if it wasn't for Jos The Boss crashing into him.

Anyways - Just think Nigel came back in and was up to speed straight away. I'm trying to think of any other drivers who have gone F1/Indy/F1 to give a comparrision with but Zanardi is the only one that comes to mind.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I think JV is hard one to judge as he was given a car that was a long way the class of the field. JPM certainly didn't have that advantage yet should have taken a victory in his 3rd Grand Prix if it wasn't for Jos The Boss crashing into him.

Yes, JV and Juan Pablo did well because the competition wasn't as stiff.

That relates to my thesis about the toughness of the driver era. Andretti had to contend with Senna and his era...and Bourdais had Vettel to contend with and his era.

Juan Pablo ought to have won the 2003 World Championship but was too inconsistent. His teammate was even less consistent and totally useless. Ralf Schumacher.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

My dear friends, Frank Williams had a title winning car in 1995 and in 2003 but he didn't have good enough drivers to make that happen.

That's why they let Hill leave at the end of 1996 without so much as thinking twice. They had signed Frentzen as early as 1995 (for the 1997 season) because they felt Hill (and Coulthard) didn't get what the car offered them that year. They were fed up with their drivers and that's why JV was brought in for 1996 and plans were already in place to replace Hill whilst Hill was on his way to becoming World Champion.

Frentzen wasn't any better and JV made a meal of winning the 97 title.

Basically none of the Williams drivers after 1994 (after Mansell, Prost, Senna) were true Number 1s in the mould of Schumacher, Hakkinen, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Vettel.

 

[RasputinLives]

Yeah out of the 16 races he scored points 12 times, had 9 podiums and 3 retirements. The boy was proper inconsistant.

Anyways - isn'tt his thread about Nigel?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

out of the 16 races he scored points 12 times, had 9 podiums and 3 retirements. The boy was proper inconsistant.

Who and what year?

 

[RasputinLives]

Montoya in 2003 ya dipstick - the one you said was massively inconsistant which is why he didn't win the championship that year.

Which is funny as when I tried to argue it was Schumacher's greatest championship you told me that Montoya only lost because of all the changing of the tyres.

I love Nigel's tache

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Dipstick?

Do F1 cars have dipsticks or are you overstepping the mark with the chap?

 

[RasputinLives]

F1 has a lot of dipsticks. dipstick is a friendly tease where I come from Cook. If I've offended you or Ray or any actual dipsticks I will happily make a public apology

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I'm not offended. Not even slightly!

Montoya in 2003 ya dipstick - the one you said was massively inconsistant which is why he didn't win the championship that year.

My friend, two things happened in 2003 with Williams:

1. Montoya made silly mistakes which reduced his chances of the title. He was inconsistent!

2. The FIA helped Ferrari and Bridgestone destabalize the Michelin title challengers (mainly Williams (Montoya) and McLaren (Raikkonen)) because they were getting way too close to comfort to Schumacher in the standings, especially Raikkonen who only had 1 win in an old McLaren!

Ask Sir Frank and Patrick Head if the above is true.

 

[Vortex]

Ask Sir Frank and Patrick Head if the above is true.

Yeah I’ll give him a ring tomorrow!

 

[RasputinLives]

Ask Sir Frank and Patrick Head if the above is true.

I gave Frank a ring last night and asked him. He said that Juan Pablo is one of the most fiesty and determined drivers he'd ever seen and that when he's on form he has overtaking skills to match anyone. He still follows his career apparently and even rang him to say congrats when he won his first Nascar race in 2009.

He also told me to tell Ray "how about them Maple Leafs huh?" he said you'd know what he meant.

 

[Vortex]

I gave Frank a ring last night and asked him. He said that Juan Pablo is one of the most fiesty and determined drivers he'd ever seen and that when he's on form he has overtaking skills to match anyone. He still follows his career apparently and even rang him to say congrats when he won his first Nascar race in 2009.

He also told me to tell Ray "how about them Maple Leafs huh?" he said you'd know what he meant.

So thats why I couldnt get through, think they'd have more than one line wouldnt you!?! lol

 

[Bill Boddy]

So thats why I couldnt get through, think they'd have more than one line wouldnt you!?! lol

With the current state of the Williams finances Sir Frank is back to using a phonebox (and there's not so many of those around these days).

 

[KekeTheKing]

Speaking of JPM, it seems that Montoya has almost worn out his welcome in NASCAR too. His latest clash elicited these remarks from Clint Bowyer, who was fighting for a spot in the corny "Chase for the Cup".

"You can't race around the jackass, you never can. Anybody in this sport knows what you're up against when the 42 comes up. He dive-bombs the starts and bullies his way up in there, and before you know it, he's in the way and wrecking with somebody. Unfortunately, I was victim this week. It's just a shame. We're out here racing for a spot in the Chase. He's racing for nothing, you know? I'm tired of it. Everybody in the garage area fights him. He's just an idiot."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog...puts-Bowyer-s-chances-into-?urn=nascar-wp3656

For his part, Juan offered up these sentiments on Twitter;

We made some real progress with car. I heard that bowyer wasn't too happy. I guess next time he'll give me a little room.

 

[VanChallis]

F1 has a lot of dipsticks. dipstick is a friendly tease where I come from Cook. If I've offended you or Ray or any actual dipsticks I will happily make a public apology

Like Pillock. That word couldn't possibly be offensive!

 

[VanChallis]

Speaking of JPM, it seems that Montoya has almost worn out his welcome in NASCAR too. His latest clash elicited these remarks from Clint Bowyer, who was fighting for a spot in the corny "Chase for the Cup".

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog...puts-Bowyer-s-chances-into-?urn=nascar-wp3656

For his part, Juan offered up these sentiments on Twitter;

Good old JP, I always liked him!