Grand Prix 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Muddytalker said:
snowy said:
What F1 needs to take away from this weekend is that it is bloody stupid having a GP season at circuits that have never ever offered a more than mundane race. :bored:
FTFY
Yes, there is that...
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I was quite intruged by the race weekend as a whole and the race itself i didn't find that boring and it certainately left a few question marks hanging around to create a bit of gossip.

The TV coverage as usual left alot to be desired particually around times etc but that was sub standard to the norm all weekend tbh. I don't know about everyone else but i'd be happy given todays technology watching a split screen or box in box scenario where you could have lets say a main box for where the action is another smaller one to follow the leaders/replays of team chat, bit falling off cars, pit stops etc and possibly a third which actually depicted a live timing screen much as it is online (sector times etc).

The whole debate around spectacle has always been there and always will, like alot of other people i'm inclined to leave it a good few races yet to fully understand what is going on. One thing i don't agree with is 2 pitstops manatory (ala Whitmarsh and co). The only thing that would achieve imho is maybe a few more overtakes via the pitstops and not on the track which through the top 8 is where they happened (except for vettel's misfortune) and i need to watch it again but i'm pretty certain at least one was linked to the new 55m in pit board rule. That was either just pure luck or maybe some very clever strategy who knows. I think they should have as many pitstops as they want including the princely sum of zero but for that to work it would need a tyre war or more compounds made available. I remember when mix and matching compounds was the norm.

Far short of stripping off areo and putting more emphasis on mechanical grip i can't see an answer to the spectacle question unless you put more into driver ability as well and take away the flappy paddles and give them a clutch peddle and a gated gearbox to think about rather than the playstation life as it is.

THe only thing that still puzzles me is the Q3 - Q2 times.

Anyway good race can't wait for the next and i do think under the cirmcumstances all the new teams equited themselves well first time out even if chandhok is a bit bump blind.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

slickskid said:
i'm pretty certain at least one was linked to the new 55m in pit board rule
That was Rosberg who was prevented from leaving his pit box due to Button driving down the pit lane.
As a result Hamilton was able to get past Rosberg.

I suggested an exclusion zone last year.
Maybe the FIA/FOTA picked up on my comments when they were browsing the overtaking data :D
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
I suggested an exclusion zone last year.
Maybe the FIA/FOTA picked up on my comments when they were browsing the overtaking data :D
Maybe we need to come up with some more bright idea's then :D
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Bringing back the side bar position graphic in quali? That would be good. Even for those of us who don't want to watch with green and purple lighting screens on our knee that would explain a lot! Rant over Greedy.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
Senile old git. >:(
I think it really is time he stepped down before he loses all credibility.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

This made me laugh

Far be it for us to worry you, but it might be wise to dig around in the garden shed and find that old tin of Dulux and splash a bit of it on the living-room wall around the start of the next grand prix in Australia in case you need something to watch if the racing is as dull as it was here in Bahrain.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

OK, It is rant time.

What the hell did you expect? No refuelling and we're suddenly back to 1984? It was never going to happen. Formula One has been like this for a long, long time and it is unlikely to change overnight, particularly at such a dull Tilkedrome as Sakhir. And even notwithstanding this, they've gone and arsed up the circuit by sticking in a pointlessly twisty middle section which even stopped anyone decent in a straight line catching slower cars for an assault down to turn 1.

We've all been saying for years the problem is aerodynamic, and the OWG tried to change it and their suggestions got screwed by loose regulations which allowed DDDs to appear on a few cars last year. To say non-refuelling is the problem makes the assumption made by Ecclestone all the bloody time with no bloody evidence, that drivers don't want to overtake. Of course they do, they can't overtake. Ensuring they weigh roughly the same amount as an overweight elephant at the start of the race wasn't even possibly going to change that!

And, for F1 fans, there's a lot of moaning going on on this forum. You can take it or leave it, no-one is forcing you to watch. I, however, believe that Bahrain was not as dull as you say, despite the mess they've made at the circuit, and I don't expect Melbourne to be dull, as it usually isn't.

OK, rant over.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I don't think it's moaning so much, not on here anyway.

The race was dull (not one overtaking manoevre for the last 24 laps?), and there is disappointment that the extra fuel load
a) Didn't encourage a different strategy
b) Didn't degrade the tyres as much as expected to allow overtaking later in the race
c) Didn't extend braking zones enough to overcome the aerodynamic issues.

A lot of the debate/ranting on here is exasperation at the F1 principals, who think the solution is more pitstops, and or want to blame it on no refuelling. Even Bernie knows that's not the answer.

"It is basically the same problem we have had for the last few years about downforce and cars not being able to get close to the one in front to create more overtaking.

"The teams know this but they won't do anything about it because each team looks after its own interests: trying to win.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

On this forum I have been very encouraged, however the media and a vast swathe of people outside this forum have completely lost their minds! :crazy:

James Allen has actually talked some sense on his blog! So I thought I must be losing my mind as well! :givemestrength: However he then went on to add a poll to the end of an article which doesn't give any one with a moderate or balanced view any option to choose! Thus restoring my view of him as a complete tit and my sanity...

What would you do to improve the F1 show?
  • [1]Make two tyre stops compulsory
    [2]Make drivers use only one type of tyre
    [3]Reintroduce refueling
    [4]Let drivers take short cuts
Vote
No mention of:
Wait for a circuit that is actually any good.
Loose the two tyre rule.
Loose the mandatory pitstop.

As it stands nearly 50% of voters want to reintroduce refuelling.
Can I use the words :censored: :censored:?

Apparently not... :whistle:
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The problem is the teams, sponsors and Bernie all think about the bottom line which is cash.

They couldn't care less if the true fans are put out by the ridiculous rules, as long as it tempts the masses to watch it and hence increase revenue and sales.

As usual the lowest common denominator prevails.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
The problem is the teams, sponsors and Bernie all think about the bottom line which is cash.

They couldn't care less if the true fans are put out by the ridiculous rules, as long as it tempts the masses to watch it and hence increase revenue and sales.

As usual the lowest common denominator prevails.
Is it worth losing the true fans in favour of the masses? After all, the masses are fickle and will move on when they get bored (not that I expect this to take long). Show somebody BTCC or Motogp and then an F1 race and ask them which one they find more exciting and I think we know what the answer will be.

I think it's high time that we got shot of Bernie and co, but sadly I suspect their contract is watertight and we'll be stuck with someone whose vision is dollar signs and not a good sporting spectacle.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I know it's been raised (and dismissed) before, but compare Sunday's opener with the Indycar opener



(Can't find a way to the picture thing, it's a .pdf)
Indy Lap Chart

The Sao Paulo street track was bumpy and narrow in parts, but it also had a long straight into a hairpin. They also have a 'push to pass' button, which yes, is artificial (though no more than the turbo boost F1 used to have) but you can only use it so many times. So what happens? Yes, they overtake! No, really!
Also, apart from the lead changes/overtaking you can see in the chart, I was also struck that even after around 10 racing laps, the top 7 or 8 were covered by just a few seconds, and could follow closely.

Dismiss it as a spec formula if you like, but it's not having the same cars that allows close racing, it's the fundamental design and approach to the event/sport/fans that allows the overtaking and excitement.
 

genji

Banned
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
On this forum I have been very encouraged, however the media and a vast swathe of people outside this forum have completely lost their minds!
It's getting beyond a joke now.

Coulthard is one F1 personality I would never have expected to come out in favour of more restrictive racing, especially since in this same article he castigates Max Mosley for introducing "revs limited to 18,000rpm, the ban on in-race refuelling, standardised gearboxes and engines, a single tyre supplier..."

I don't understand why these people have such a big problem after one race.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I suspect it is a viral infection, similar to "foot in mouth" and it is spread by particular radio wavelengths. :thinking:
 
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Ok, so it wasnt a great race, but it was pretty much what i expected from Bahrain.
Now that i am thinking about it, this is pretty much what i expect of F1. This isnt a criticism, its just an observation. I love F1 and have rarely found it dull over the past 25 years which probably tells you more about me than about F1!!
Want to see close racing with lots of passes? Look at any motorbike race like Moto GP, WSBK, BSB; watch NASCAR, Indy Car, Aussie V8s, WTCC, BTCC, even GP2! Heck, watch them all anyway!!!

Two of the things that make F1 different from all the spec racing is that within a set of rules designed to do otherwise, they are allowed to create a very high downforce car capable of incredible cornering plus super short braking distances. The incredible cornering cannot be done in distrubed air so its difficult to follow someone close enough to get into a braking duel; and the short braking area makes outbraking neigh on impossible.
If overtaking was easy then it wouldnt be the premier class; we cannot have it all ways. If its about lots of overtaking, gratutitous crashes and many winners ( as i suspect the masses want ) then they are watching the wrong sport............YET ..........these are the same people that consider NASCAR to be "mickey mouse" without ever having taken the time to watch it and understand it!! These are not motorsports fans, these are the equivilent of spoilt brats sitting back in their chair on sunday afternoon and saying "entertain me".

But because thare are more of them than there are of true motorsport fans, the tabloids like to jump on their bandwagon (surprise) and stir it up; Bernie needs the masses to pay his debt bills so he sticks his nose in as well (surprise) ; and pundits just love to criticise (surprise)

Tell you what all you F1 fans threatening to walk away; F1 isnt perfect and needs improvement; but if you dont like it walk away or switch over to some other series (or both)
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Those of us who have experienced true love understand that love includes accepting another person's faults. (Bear with me guys!)

So it is with love for F1. We all know it isn't perfect, and we'd all like it to be a bit better - though we might disagree on exactly what needs to change, and why. But as I've said before, even when it isn't thrilling it's still interesting, and I'm still hooked.

I think the last few days have seen the most unbelievable over-reaction from all sides. Naturally, the media only build things up in order to knock them down later.

For the drivers and team principals to get involved as well, though, is really disappointing. Some of them need to be shown their comments again in six months' time, I suspect.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Found this great onboard from Hamilton.

It shows that he actually passed Massa's Ferrari for 3rd spot but went too deep into the next corner and that's when Massa retook the place and also Nico got past.

But for that Hamilton could have been in 3rd after lap 1 and it could have been a very different race.

 
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