Grand Prix 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion

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Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The TV producer and the BBC commentary team were given an excellent opportunity to stretch their legs and minds, and incorporate action and detail from further down the grid
Doesn't the BBC have to take the local feed set up by FOM? I agree the race coverage was poor as there was far more action further down the field and watching Vettel and Alonso diving round unchallenged was not great but I'd blame the local producer. You also have to wonder what coverage they are told to give - presumably Red Bull (the brand), Santander and Vodaphone expect more air time than, say, Virgin? Or am I just being cynical?
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The producer is local for each GP and not necessarily biased to any team or sponsor. But they are rarely particularly experienced in covering F1. A dedicated F1 producer or small pool of producers may well create a better experience. Knowing when to cut to and from action, what to focus on at particular stages of a race is an art form and requires a huge amount of instinct and creative awareness. Seldom are these qualities exhibited by producers during a GP weekend.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Blundell and Legard consulted the Live Timing less than half a dozen times throughout the GP. They had little or no idea what was happening lower down the grid. They were unable to tell who was overtaking who during the replays because they had no idea who was gaining or losing ground. They need to differentiate their roles in the box as Murray Walker and James Hunt were able to do so instinctively.

One looks and comments on the TV action that is transmitted, the other looks out of the window, monitors the Live timing and informs the viewers on what they can't see.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I think a bit of perspective is required by a lot of commentators, really - including team bosses and drivers. F1 races are usually interesting; often fascinating, but rarely thrilling. This has been the case for a long time and is not likely to change.

This was the first race of the season, where teams are always going to be conservative, and compounding this at a circuit that was hard on brakes, easy on tyres and not particularly renowned for memorable races. At other circuits this season degradation will be more severe and making two stops will be a more credible option. Furthermore as the teams become more familiar with their cars they will learn how to make them more consistent and driveable, and drivers will be more confident in driving them aggressively.

If Abu Dhabi had been the opening race of 2009 the reaction would have been the same (if not worse). So let's wait and see, shall we. In the absence of a tyre war (which would solve a lot of these issues, IMO) there isn't a whole lot they could do to make it better, and much that could make matters considerably worse.

Oh, and agree with snowy- the direction wasn't good yesterday, and if the action's in the midfield or at the back, that's what we should be watching (obviously).
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

GordonMurray said:
F1 races are usually interesting; often fascinating, but rarely thrilling.
An excellent point.

I thought yesterday's race started out very exciting and interesting as we had no idea how it was going to pan out with regards to tyres, speed and handling with full fuel, changing speeds towards the end of the race, etc.

As it turned out, it looks like Red Bull have put together a formidable package and Vettel would probably have won it comfortably if not for a faulty spark plug.

All in all though, this race was less predictable (in my opinion) than most races last year where we knew from the first few laps how it was going to turn out due to it being a series of short sprints.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

More garbage from those that 'know best'

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82162
Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner said: "I think the problem, with the way the format of the races are, is that you are in danger of one stop races at all events.
"I think we should consider whether we do two mandatory stops. It seems ridiculous that the guys train like hell for one stop."
No Christian, it's ridiculous that a major worldwide sport has got itself into a position where you spend so much time and money on improving the bits when you aren't racing :givemestrength:

Edit: For balance, I should also point out that he then goes on to say they should wait a few more races, which is Domenicalli's default position.
 

genji

Banned
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

GordonMurray said:
I think a bit of perspective is required by a lot of commentators, really - including team bosses and drivers.
I was surprised by Whitmarsh's comments yesterday, less so by Nick Fry's today. Stefano Domenicali seems to have a decent opinion, saying he wouldn't form one until after a few races. What's irritating is that none of them have considered (publicly) the appalling extension to the circuit, which apparently scuppered GP2 as well.

Everything's already been said here about the short term solution: remove the excessive artificiality of tyre rules and give the teams the chance to run different races. It seems stupid of the commentators so far to be reacting to the fact that that the teams all do the same thing when the rules say they all have to do the same thing.

Forget about Hamilton and Button's knee-engaged rush system - the team principals knee-jerk reactions are the real knee-gate scandal. From reading the news sites you'd think F1 was tearing itself apart again.
 

rufus_mcdufus

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The team principals would be better off saying precisely nothing at this moment in time IMHO rather than coming forward with half-arsed ideas which sound like they'd make it worse. Any reaction is likely to inflame the situation. It's just 2 weeks to the next race - let's wait and see and get a clearer picture then.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Muddytalker said:
When I get some time today, I'm going to do some analaysis to see whether Felipe, Lewis or even Nico could have won the race if they were allowed the option of not stopping. Just a thought.
A quick scan of Nico and Lewis' lap times shows that the harder tyre was quicker to the tune of around 2 secs a lap, and that on the soft tyres the lap times rose a little and fell a little lap-on-lap. There was certainly no consistent drop in lap times (which you might expect due to the fuel load coming down), nor a real increase in time due to degredation.

So, given that laps 2-15 were run at around 2min 03 - 2min 04, and there was no real drop off in performance for the last 15 laps of the race in which laps were run at around 2min 00, then I think 49 laps on the harder tyre, without a pitstop could well have won the race. The issue is of course that with this knowledge, everyone would have raced on the harder tyre from the start and not changed, given the opportunity.

To me though, this is in fact good news. We have a tyre that will be competitive for a full race distance, it's page 1 in the manual to better racing. If we assume that we are to still only have 1 tryre supplier, then what we now need is
a) Bridgestone to produce a softer tyre that will give you a 1 - 1.5 sec initial advantage, that by around halfway into the race levels out to be on a par with the harder tyre, and then degrades further so that the harder tyre is quicker. The driver on the soft tyre than has to make a decision to nurse the tyres home and hope he has enough in hand, or change tyres and put on new (quicker) tyres, but be behind Mr Hard Tyre. A good racing brain will determine at what point that tyre change needs to be made (too soon and the tyres won't last, too late and not enough time to catch up)
b) The end of the two-compound rule from the FIA
c) The top 10 to start on any tyre they like.

Ok, rant over for now.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

So if the harder tyre was quicker by 2 seconds a lap and can last a whole race then there was nothing to stop anyone from pitting at the end of lap 1 and switching to hards (assuming they started on softs).

I wonder if we'll see anyone trying that at the next race?

Even if it doesn't quite last the race, 2 seconds per lap would give them a healthy lead (assuming they can pass) and they would have more than enough time for a second stop.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

From reading the news sites you'd think F1 was tearing itself apart again.
It's an interesting point. In the absence of conflict, create one. This time last year Max would have lept 40 feet into the air on to the back of his high horse and threatend to introduce tyre caps, budget caps, cloth caps and any other type of cap he could think of.

While the team principles busy themselves making absurd statements about mandatory 2 stoppers and such like there isn't much response coming back from the FIA which is exactly how it should be and how it should remain. If there is nothing useful to be said then say nothing.

As for the TV coverage there seemed to be some issues with the timing screens. I noticed during the pit stops that none of the Mclaren stops were timed. It wasn't as bad as Abu Dahbi with it's long, low shots of empty track or that big blue dome thing but I agree it was less than inspiring.

I think what made Murry and James so good were their contrasting styles. Murry having an epileptic fit at the slightest thing and the laid back to the point of sarcasm, James dropping in with his wit and put downs. It may be a TV cliche but perhaps what's needed in the commentry team is a "Mr Nasty" type figure to be a bit more blunt about what's going on. Some one like Niki Lauda who wouldn't pull any punches. At the moment we have Mr Nice and Mr seriously :censored: dull which dosn't help matters much.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
So if the harder tyre was quicker by 2 seconds a lap and can last a whole race then there was nothing to stop anyone from pitting at the end of lap 1 and switching to hards (assuming they started on softs).

I wonder if we'll see anyone trying that at the next race?

Even if it doesn't quite last the race, 2 seconds per lap would give them a healthy lead (assuming they can pass) and they would have more than enough time for a second stop.
Only the fear of getting caught in the midfield pack, but you're right with regards to a stop on lap 1. It might be slightly skewed by starting the hards with 15 laps less of fuel perhaps, but maybe some will look at qualifying on hard tyres and leaving the stop till very late (either way would make a mockery of the two-compund rule)
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Perhaps they should get rid of speeding in the pitlane, as the time penalty for making a pitstop is too high at most circuits. Is there a record of how many fatalities and casualities there were before speeding in the pitlane was introduced? It wasn't that big a problem, was it?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The pit lane speed limit was introduced after Ayrton Senna drove into the pit lane during the 1993 European GP but aborted the pit stop, returning to the circuit and subsequently setting the fastest lap of the race.

Pit lane speed limits were introduced the following season.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Hehehe! LOL Ayrton was a damned astute driver and never missed a trick did he? 8-)
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
The pit lane speed limit was introduced after Ayrton Senna drove into the pit lane during the 1993 European GP but aborted the pit stop, returning to the circuit and subsequently setting the fastest lap of the race.

Pit lane speed limits were introduced the following season.
I thought it was brought in after Michele Alboreto's accident in the pitlane at Imola '94?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Muddytalker said:
Brogan said:
The pit lane speed limit was introduced after Ayrton Senna drove into the pit lane during the 1993 European GP but aborted the pit stop, returning to the circuit and subsequently setting the fastest lap of the race.

Pit lane speed limits were introduced the following season.
I thought it was brought in after Michele Alboreto's accident in the pitlane at Imola '94?
You could be right.
That was just a snippet of information I picked up a while ago.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

There have been so many really perverted interviews with the drivers about this race, with loaded questions, putting words in their mouths, mis-quoting and quoting out of context. The media have totally lost their friggin' marbles this weekend! :givemestrength:
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

What F1 needs to take away from this weekend is that it is bloody stupid starting a GP season at a circuit that has never ever offered a more than mundane race. :bored:
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
What F1 needs to take away from this weekend is that it is bloody stupid having a GP season at circuits that have never ever offered a more than mundane race. :bored:
FTFY
 
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